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Ok, so if I understand you correctly, your position is as follows:
There are "real trans" people as well as people who are not "real trans"
There must exist an objective way to distinguish between them which involves interviewing them, although this method has not yet been developed.
You know this to be true because (a) there objective ways to ascertain other things about people's mental state by interviewing them, such as whether those persons like bananas; are neurotic; or have suffered from diverticulitis; and (b) there is no reason to think that being "real trans" is any different from these other conditions.
People who are "real trans" should be treated by society as their preferred gender.
Do I understand your position correctly?
No, you don't.
To my recollection I don't really take a stance on what to do about people who (actually) identify as trans or have trans thought content.
I also think (based off of my reading of other comments you make in this thread) that you've missed the core insight of my initial post.
Which is: The problem is that a number of phenomena that vary from pretty convincingly "true" trans to not really trans at all (tomboys) to definitely not trans and even activists should acknowledge it (forensic malingerers) all get labeled the same thing.
This has all kinds of negative effects, such as not getting people the correct care (ex: Schizophrenic patient needs antipsychotics, malingering patient needs boundary setting) and also things like an inappropriately enhanced level of skepticism in the moderate and conservative population.
How difficult to deal with trans people are is entirely orthogonal to the question of why they exist and it seems obvious they should exist given the variation in the human population (especially if you believe in non-woke biology).
This is not helped by the woke incoherent post-modern understanding of gender theory that probably doesn't match the biological roots of the true underlying phenomena.
My apologies, I assumed that you were distinguishing between "real" trans people and others for purposes of treatment by public policy, society, other people, etc.
Let's try again and see if I understand your position correctly:
There are "real trans" people as well as people who are not "real trans"
There must exist an objective way to distinguish between them which involves interviewing them, although this method has not yet been developed.
You know this to be true because (a) there objective ways to ascertain other things about people's mental state by interviewing them, such as whether those persons like bananas; are neurotic; or have suffered from diverticulitis; and (b) there is no reason to think that being "real trans" is any different from these other conditions.
You aren't arguing that "real trans" people should be treated any differently, you are simply drawing the distinction for academic purposes.
Do I understand you correctly?
Are you going anywhere with this?
I am simply trying to understand the pro trans position. So far, everyone's responses have pretty much confirmed what I already strongly suspected: That it's a bunch of ridiculous nonsense on the level of astrology, supported by silly word games.
Anyway, I take it that you decline to answer my question?
Apologies to the woke, but I think they are retarded. One of the reasons why they are retarded is because the woke framing has a bunch of inconsistent nonsense (which is what I think you are noticing and complaining about) that obscures underlying phenomena.
Transpeople make more sense under non-woke thinking than under woke. Woke people say all kinds of stuff about sex and gender, but a non-woke person will usually feel that men and women have some form of biological differences (say: trucks vs. dolls) in thinking and other factors that gets spat out as "gender" by society.
If someone is born with a more or less male brain and but is in a female body then you have a mismatch.
It would make sense that this is rare, it would also make sense that it happens on occasion, we get all kinds of variations in people and while this is probably evolutionary disadvantageous it doesn't seem nearly as damaging to reproductive fitness as gayness.
All of this I said before so where are you getting tripped up? If your problem is that you don't think trans people exist at all that you are likely just being disgruntled and reactive to the woke - gay people clearly exist, you see all kinds of case and news reports of bizarre shit in the population, why not this one?
If your problem is woke word games then who cares, that ideology says all kinds of nonsense that doesn't really explain anything and doesn't usefully related to anything in the world (or at least I believe so).
That may be so, but I started this thread to try to understand the arguments underlying the pro-trans position. Anyone in this thread, regardless of their stance, who hides their position from me (as you have) is not helpful. So I think we are done.
I have at no point hidden my position from you. I've pointed out that woke framing is unnecessary and obscures the underlying reality of trans people, I've been quite consistent in this.
If what you are seeking is for people to defend the weakest form of the argument for the existence of trans people then....why are you doing that?
If what you are looking for is for people to specifically defend woke gender ideology then why the heck are you doing that? Especially here of all places.
You absolutely have. I presented a fair summary, corrected it after you objected, and asked if it was a reasonable summary of your position. Rather than answering my question, you simply said the following:
(And I am screenshotting the whole exchange so that if you edit your response and any lurkers think I am misrepresenting things, feel free to message me and I will send a screenshot.)
In any event, I am not going to argue with you over whether you hid your position. You plainly did and any further discussion is a waste of time.
Feel free to have the last word, I am not going to read or respond.
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