This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The six twelves people mostly signed up for it for the opportunity to make more money, usually in jobs that would be tough to replace even if they might be unpopular in certain circles(oil extraction in particular likes this schedule). No one really finds this schedule controversial- those guys almost always volunteered for it. I think he's referring to the oriental grindset of overstudying to boost test scores above what IQ would predict.
It's controversial enough to require overtime pay, because a more decent population that existed in the past decided man is more than a workbot.
More options
Context Copy link
Yeah, I don't necessarily like grinding at learning as a widespread practice, though that mostly seems to be about worrying that the only alternative to passing tests and office drudgery is too horrible to contemplate. The main way around that is making second or third tier jobs bearable. It should be alright (and largely is in America) for a moderately smart person to work as a cook or something. People make fun of liberal arts baristas, but that is a sign that America is producing barista jobs that are better than someone grinding super hard or running back to their families, which is good, actually.
Being a cook sucks- the pay is bad, the hours are maximally terrible, and the working conditions are usually awful, and it's stressful and you're surrounded by felons and have to be bilingual. But there's lots of jobs which do not take a grindset to get into for moderately smart people which are totally fine; you can be a teacher or accountant or cop or work in most trades and make a decent living for a manageable work life balance- and America has lots of second chances if your kids have the same parents and you don't do drugs or commit violent crimes. Not getting into Jane street isn't a consignment to working in a sweatshop.
My father and grandfather were cooks.
I'm confused about my father's trajectory, because he's never been in trouble with the law, got a college degree in the 70s, upstanding member of his church community, remained married to the same woman for 40 years, refused to learn Spanish, and yet was a line cook surrounded by Spanish speakers for years. Then he went and taught high school for a decade. My understanding of the situation is that he is just incredibly uncharismatic, and couldn't figure out the boomer job search methods, but it's kind of weird in retrospect. Also, we were homeschooling, and living partially off of... stocks gifted by relatives, I think?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link