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PaperclipPerfector  2d ago (text post)   8324 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 13, 2026

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So the Israelites knew about STDs, but not the Romans and Greeks?

Haven't you ever wondered why the latter two empires collapsed?

Homosexuality prohibitions didn't stop 10% of Victorian Britain from getting syphilis.

Yes, and yet you will notice that syphilis is far less lethal than HIV.

…unlike the first, which had such a great time over the next 2500 years?

And no, I think I’ve got a decent understanding of the Roman collapse. It really doesn’t line up with a narrative of (social) decadence and tolerance. Centuries of geopolitical pressure and food distribution far outweighed any trends in buttsex.

…unlike the first, which had such a great time over the next 2500 years?

Seems like a great argument for the tenacity of their memes (including prohibition on homosexuality) in the face of overwhelming hostility from literally every other tribe they came into (come into) contact with. The story of Jewish success is really a story of their having superior memes to their competitors: it's no wonder they've wielded such power and influence in Hollywood for so many decades.

And no, I think I’ve got a decent understanding of the Roman collapse.

Admittedly, my ascription of the collapse of these empires to that cause was somewhat facetious. But it is interesting that both empires collapsed or were absorbed into other tribes, while the Israelites are still going strong and a distinct cultural tribal grouping many thousands of years later.

Attributing the ascendancy of a particular species to a specific gene is foolhardy: it's a particular package or constellation of genes that wins out over its competitors. Likewise with memes: no single meme is necessary and sufficient. Cultures which survive and thrive are those with an evolutionarily fit package of memes, of which prohibition of homosexuality was likely one, but prohibition of homosexuality is not necessary and sufficient in its own right. A tribe which prohibited homosexuality but encouraged all its members to sterilise themselves or to eat hemlock could not reasonably expect to outcompete a tribe which did none of those things.

Yes, the Roman Empire heavily prohibited and criminalized homosexuality after the reign of Constantine. While pre-Christian Rome had complex social norms that tolerated certain same-sex relationships under strict conditions of dominance and class, the Christianization of the empire led to systematic legal and social bans

Hmm....

Yes, and yet you will notice that syphilis is far less lethal than HIV.

Sure, most STDs before HIV was not particularly lethal. But that would go against the idea that prohibitions on homosexuality were created because of devastatingly lethal STD epidemics.

STDs do impact female fertility though.

Sure, most STDs before HIV was not particularly lethal.

STDs that we know of. The Joseph Henrich argument is that cultures with memes optimised for evolutionary fitness will outcompete cultures without. For all we know, there could well have been ancient cultures in which homosexuality and free love were tolerated, and which hence went extinct at the hands of some sexually transmitted pathogen that modern medicine has never encountered.

I also think your rebuttal rests on an implicit Nirvana fallacy. Yes, cultures in which homosexuality was aggressively stigmatised still had STDs. Is your contention that, had they not stigmatised homosexuality, the rate of syphilis transmission in Victorian Britain would have been the same or lower?

Well, judging by the modern world, the pro-homosexuality meme has thoroughly defeated the gay bashers.

I don't know what this means.

If "cultures with memes optimised for evolutionary fitness will outcompete cultures without", and the west is the most pro-homosexual culture in history, and also the most dominant culture in history...?

The West became dominant decades if not centuries prior to the destigmatization of homosexuality. Until very recently, the West stigmatised homosexuality almost as aggressively as the Arab countries do today (e.g. Turing probably deserves as much credit as Churchill for ending the war in Europe, but when his sexuality was discovered, he was not simply let off with a slap on the wrist). The new CEO does not get to take credit for the accomplishments of his predecessor.

It was also new- syphilis had not been in Europe prior to the discovery of the new world.

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