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I never say it out loud in person with a woman I might be interested in.
I don't intend to change my mindset, when its everyone else's mindset that sucks.
If it were working for them, they wouldn't be in the same boat and also mentally worse off than I am.
Cognitive rigidity is a choice. You should get over it. You can be happy or you can be right, which would you prefer?
You might not say it around women you are interested in, but what about friends? Their partners? People talk, I’m not sure about your personal platonic ecosystem but are you really so spoilt for choice that you can afford to burn bridges and close doors of opportunity?
Trad women don’t want to date men who express controlling-abuse red flags, doing so puts them in a worse position. When you explain your thoughts it comes off much more mild, thus its a signaling problem.
Thus far I'm managing to be both.
Most people are managing neither, it would appear. I'm cognitively rigid insofar as my process has brought me towards what I actually want in life, and I see others processes do not.
Note, I may have a different overall set of priorities than the average person.
Which bridges and doors are you referring to?
People aren't getting in relationships at all these days. The doors have been closed already.
Its worst among the young. Nobody is reckoning with this in a meaningful way.
The whole problem is that whatever mindsets you're trying to talk me into has led to this disastrous landscape.
Why would I change MY mindset when I can directly observe that doing so doesn't actually improve the situation?
The ones that exist when you are a part of a community. When friends introduce you their partner’s friends, when you meet potential partners in your community, when people in your community vouch for you, when you bring your partner to your community and the women side conversation convey what a catch you are. Basic social things. Nothing reinforces a woman’s mate choice like a community that approves and lauds that choice as a good match.
If nobody is matching up then the obvious answer for you is to plant your feet in the sand and refuse to soften your language… because that will show them!
That's not how relationships happen anymore.
Its been replaced with online interactions and apps.
And people just NOT forming relationships. The doors you're describing are just shut, by default.
You describe my PREFERRED method of finding a partner. You're also describing the exact method that failed me repeatedly over the years when it turns out the women in a given community aren't actually looking for partners from said community.
This is my point. I've gone through this process, I've failed, and I've tried to adapt.
Its OTHER PEOPLE who have the mindset that led here. I'm just dealing with the fallout.
You’re not talking to a boomer mate, I spent 12 years in the OLD trenches. I know the stats, the sources, the arguments. I’ve made them, I sang that song, and I’m telling you very few of the couples I know, now including me, met online and I hang out with NERDS, where there is no/little stigma.
I literally came here from PPD.
So I'm curious (genuinely) as to what precisely you think the correct approach is that has decent odds of success.
What community out there is welcoming to new members, gives them a true purpose and puts their contributory efforts to good uses, and doesn't mind, and in fact supports members eventually pairing off together?
And, critically, has a decent gender ratio?
No cults, please.
I attest that, at large, in mainstream society, these functionally do not exist any longer.
Proper disclaimer first: anyone who tells you they have a high success approach in this environment, who doesn’t live in your polity, have your hobbies, is asking you to join a cult, or sell you a subscription to hustlers university…
Solution: form your own community. Legitimately waiting for others to create something so you can come in and consume is why third spaces no longer exist. Too many free loaders. It doesn’t need to give people purpose(like a cult) it needs to be a space that people want join, giving them friends, connections, people to hangout with. Instant social status, you are a leader, you have cred. It’s a ton of work but i think its rewarding.
It’s up to you what community you want to make, but i built mine around social deduction board games. We have a 60/40 gender split, which is functional because it’s not full of sleazeballs only there to date. I pull people off it to play the hard core board games I like. Idk if people in it are dating each other but my current girlfriend of a year did approach me through it.
A close friend in Chicago did something similar with Latin dancing. He doesn’t date within the group but they go out to latin dance clubs and he dates women he meets through there. The women in the group wingwoman him, the other guys show him respect because he organizes it. He recently fumbled a year long relationship for stupid personal reasons but he met her through his dance outings.
Just food for thought, not sure what your hobbies are or where but i see more success from making your own community than waiting to find one.
Been at it for three years. Here's a report I made a year ago:
I'm active in my martial arts gym, which is full of great people but turns out most of them are busy with their own lives. I went through a period of putting together parties, get-togethers, and casual hangouts on at least a monthly basis.
Ironically, my most consistent attendees were the ones who managed to pair off (not with people they met through my events) and thus became... less consistent.
Once again, I find myself one of the few unpaired people in my group. Which makes me now the only one with any time to put in to building events. And I'm trying to reforge my close friend group for like the 5th time in my life.
If I go back and search my past posts as a compendium on my dating attempts over the years, it will mostly have the same complaints, over and over again. I PUT IN ALL THE EFFORT, WOMEN ARE COMPLETELY DISINTERESTED BECAUSE THE APPS GIVE THEM INFINITE OPTIONALITY.
My lament a year ago:
and further:
There is exactly zero, zilch NO social pressure on women to actually honor commitments, show up to events if they're not feeling it, or do anything other than passively participate and then leave when something more interesting arises.
This is approximately the same approach they display towards romantic relationships in general.
I don't just have studies, I have my own emperical research over years now. Its the women. The problem is with them.
Had a friend who did this regularly get me into some classes and social dancing and gave it a good ol' try. ABYSMAL gender ratio. I think all guys have the same idea. Most women that show up bring their own man. I wouldn't mind learning the skill but for finding a partner it'd be a waste of time that could be used on more fruitful endeavors (none of my endeavors have been fruitful, of course).
Any space that has a decent gender ratio won't have one for long if men get the idea that they can show up and have a chance at meeting a single lady. I've seen this in every context imaginable.
Understand that my cynicism is entirely earned, in addition to studied.
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Do you know a large number of trad women? You've polled them on beliefs?
I can't say I know any, so me saying what they want when dating would be pure speculation. I certainly know that liberal PMC women are repelled by even a hint of what they perceive to be "trad" thought, but that tells me nothing about a more traditional woman who regularly attends church.
As I said two handfuls, ~7-9 ish depending on your definition. I'm not so autistic as to formally poll them, but I have talked about dating, relationships, and I am friends with many of their husbands, I was in their weddings. I know how those husbands think, absolutely they have preferences around tattoos, hair color, and lifestyle fitness, but they married women with similar values. It's not control, its a shared agreement on values. It is also just intuitive. Would you want to date a partner who wants to control how you dress and how your body looks like, who has the final say in all of that, and even worse, it's against your beliefs to run, to divorce, so you are stuck with a controlling partner? Anyone saying yes has a fetish.
To be clear the dichotomy I am suggesting is:
vs
Faceh is expressing the latter but wants it like the former. He should give up his control issues and just converge to believing the later. It would be healthier.
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I know and have known a decent number of trad women. They're basically OK with "husband makes the final decision".
Focusing on controlling appearance is weird, though, since traditionally the woman manages not only her own appearance, but that of the children, and to some extent her husband and interior design as well. She is also forming the aesthetic judgement of the children. So it's best not to marry a woman with very poor taste.
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