site banner
PaperclipPerfector  4d ago (text post)   15823 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 24, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

2
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

My favourite and least favourite novels I read last year (respectively, Gabrielle Zevin's Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow and Nell Zink's Doxology) featured an eerily similar literary device. Large chunks of Doxology are set in New York City and upstate New York in the 90s and 2000s; unsurprisingly, 9/11 figures heavily in the plot. While the first act of Tomorrow... takes place at Harvard, most of the book takes place in the west coast, and so the 9/11 attacks don't feature as prominently, though they are mentioned.

The literary device to which I refer is that, while the 9/11 attacks are explicitly referred to, they aren't referred to as terrorist attacks. Not only is no attempt made to delve into the perpetrators' motives, there's barely any acknowledgement that the perpetrators had motives, nor even that the attacks were perpetrated by anyone. The attacks are essentially reduced to the status of a horrible tragedy that simply occurred on the volition of no one in particular, like an earthquake, a volcanic eruption or meteoric strike. The election of Donald Trump strikes Zink as a moral outrage, but for her, getting angry at 9/11 would be like getting angry about a heavy downpour. This framing is particularly galling in the case of Tomorrow..., as when one of the main characters is murdered by a crazed homophobic gunman, the novelist wants to make damn sure we understand the political motivations for his crime. Passive voice for me, active voice for thee.

It seems that this framing — 9/11 not as an attack that was committed but as an event that occurred — will soon become policy in at least one North American progressive media outlet:

KINSELLA: 9/11 wasn't a 'terrorist attack,' according to the CBC

The Encyclopedia Britannica people define it this way: “Terrorism is the calculated use of violence, or the threat of violence, to create general fear in a population and coerce a government or society to achieve political, religious, or ideological goals.”

By any reasonable and objective standard, that is what happened nearly 25 years ago, on September 11, 2001: Terrorism.

This week, I received a memo — presumably confidential — addressed to CBC News staff. It is authored by one Basem Boshra, who is the “Senior Director of Journalistic Standards and Public Trust at CBC News.” In Boshra’s memo, reporters are editors are told this:

“Do not refer to the Sept. 11 attacks as terrorist attacks.”

Boshra states that all in bold letters, italicized, as if to emphasize the point. To make clear it is a directive, not a suggestion.

It is not fair and it is in no way accurate. It is rewriting the historical record. It is manipulating facts to fit an ideological perspective. It is cruel and despicable. It is Orwellian.

I contacted a couple of CBC’s designated spokespeople to ask them why CBC has decided that terrorism is no longer terrorism. To ask them why “hijackings [that] led to passenger jet crashes” is not considered terrorism. I thought about asking them, too, if “murder” is considered involuntary cessation of biological functions at CBC. But I didn’t, because that might offend their sensibilities.

Here is what [Kerry Kelly] said: “CBC’s longstanding language guidance regarding the terms ‘terrorist’ and ‘terrorism’ is a preference for the use of these words with attribution, a practice shared by many of the world’s top journalistic organizations. Our general manager and editor in chief has written publicly in the past on the subject.”

I find this kind of evasiveness extremely frustrating. Last year a colleague of mine (who, full disclosure, I consider a manchild, and hardly someone I come to looking for cogent political analysis) was talking about the conflict in Gaza and scoffed at someone (I think it was Gal Gadot) who defended Israel on the grounds that Hamas started the most recent conflict and Israel was defending itself. I immediately shot back "but that's literally what happened", which seemed to stop him dead in his tracks: the relentless focus on Israel's purportedly brutal conduct in Gaza has obliterated from people's minds the simple fact that it wasn't a war Israel started. Likewise, see this article from Spiked: even progressive journalists, with their obsessive fixation on the civilians regrettably caught in the crossfire in Gaza, have essentially forgotten that Hamas and the PIJ are military organisations, with thousands (if not tens of thousands) of soldiers on the ground in Gaza:

‘That was the one image that really knocked me back a bit’, said Jeremy Bowen, the BBC’s international editor, on Monday morning’s Today programme. ‘[Hamas fighters] just emerged… in their trucks, which were somehow still intact’, he said. In an attempt to explain the seemingly inexplicable, he added, ‘I presume they must have been parked in some kind of tunnel perhaps’.

Bowen wasn’t the only member of the press corps to have to scoop their jaws off the floor. Others called the ‘remarkable’ scenes a ‘stark reminder’ that Hamas continues to exist.

Since Hamas’s massacre of Israeli civilians on 7 October 2023, too many Western reporters, pundits and politicians have presented the subsequent conflict as if it involved only one combatant: Israel. In fact, watching or reading the media coverage, you could be forgiven for thinking that the Israel Defence Forces were not really fighting Hamas at all, but Palestinian civilians. [emphasis mine]

If you put Hamas apologists on the spot and get them to begrudgingly concede that a) the October 7th attacks happened; b) it was not a "false flag; c) Hamas deliberately targeted civilians, and the overwhelming majority of civilians killed were not killed by the IDF as part of the Hannibal doctrine — having conceded all that, these apologists will defend the attacks on the grounds that they were "inevitable", like an avalanche, or ice melting when it's left out of the freezer. Yahya Sinwar and his legion of followers, you see, simply could not have chosen to behave other than they did.

I'm reminded also of the massive "data desert" in the UK's Ministry of Justice conviction data. It's one thing to collect information about the ethnicity of offenders, but bury it somewhere it's hard to find or insist that it must be considered in light of socioeconomic disparities. But simply not bothering to collect the information in the first place is a whole other ball game. Also consider Coulter's law, or that peculiar journalistic tic in which a vehicle-ramming attack will be described as having been committed by "a car", as if non-self-driving cars possess agency.

I also think this framing is the underlying cause of the discourse around hypoagency, or the "women are wonderful" effect. A lot of people (both men and women) seem to really struggle with the idea that a woman could simply do something heinous without having previously had someone (i.e. a man) do something heinous to her. See the Lindsay Clancy truthers, or the people baselessly claiming that Aileen Wuornos was a rape victim who killed her victims in self-defense — some people even feel more comfortable believing that Elizabeth Holmes was manipulated by her Svengali of a boyfriend into committing wire fraud. The novel I'm currently reading, Penance by Eliza Clark, is illustrative. Her first novel, Boy Parts, was about an abusive woman whose lashing out at men is implied to be the result of her having been molested by her male secondary school teacher. Penance continues the trend: of the three female murderers, one (so far) is definitively stated to have been raped as a child, while another is implied to have been sexually interfered with by a transparent Jimmy Savile stand-in. (We haven't yet done a deep-dive into girl #3's backstory, but I'm not holding my breath for what awaits me there.) For all her talk of delving into the psychology of evil fucked-up women, for Clark, there is always a male first-mover skulking about in the background. Both of her first two novels are ultimately trauma plots: I don't think Clark could even conceive of the idea of a woman doing something awful without having been interfered with in childhood. by an adult male.

This is an interesting asymmetry. When conservatives/Red Tribers/Leave voters/gammon/Zionists/whites/cis people/men/heterosexuals etc. do something bad, you will know about it. When a member of group who doesn't meet that description does something bad, you might hear about it, as a page 4 story. But the fact that a member of that group did it won't be mentioned as prominently as in the former case, if at all. It may be framed as something that happened, rather than as something that someone consciously chose to do.

I'm reminded, lastly, of a tweet posted in response to a YouTube video titled "The Internet is Failing the Left":

The fact that this video is titled “The internet is Failing the Left” tells you a lot about the psychological / ideological differences between left and right, much in the mode of Zizek.

If I (or any other right-winger) were to make a video, similar to Burns, criticizing some larger creator like Matt Walsh, we would never title it “The internet is failing the right”.

It’s not even that my arguments against Walsh would necessarily be different than Burn’s arguments against Wynn. It’s that “The internet is failing the right” reads like a GRAMMATICALLY incorrect sentence. The non-volitional object is the active subject. The political agent is the passive object. This is not correct, linguistically. The correct language would read “How the right is failing to use the internet!” or “How our enemies who run the internet are attacking the right!”

All of this goes to show that the modern left sees itself as a passive object that is acted upon. It cannot fail, it can only be failed. Capitalism and Oppression happen to the left, and that’s bad. Maybe, in the future, change and revolution will happen to the left and that will be good. But the left doesn’t DO things. Doing things is not what the left does. It isn’t that kind of thing.

The left is like a tree in the storm that is capitalism / modernity. The rain and the wind are happening to it. Maybe it survives or doesn’t, but the action is that of the storm. The right is like a ship sailing through the storm that is Capitalism / modernity. It cuts through the tempest. Maybe it survives or doesn’t, but the action is on the part of the ship.

Conservatives do things; things are done to progressives. If progressives do things, it's only ever in response to things that were done to them. And if there's no possible way to frame something they did as something that was done in response to something else, then we'll simply say it happened, not that it was done.

the simple fact that it wasn't a war Israel started fact.

That depends on whether you consider the taking of your land to constitute an act of war; generally speaking, taking over someone’s legally-recognized territory (see West Bank) constitutes an act of war. So that’s not a simple fact, it’s an opinion.

I was referring to the most recent "hot war" in Gaza, not to the broader Israel-Palestine conflict. I think this was abundantly obvious from context.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats