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PaperclipPerfector  6d ago (text post)   979 thread views

Transnational Thursday for September 17, 2026

Transnational Thursday is a thread for people to discuss international news, foreign policy or international relations history. Feel free as well to drop in with coverage of countries you’re interested in, talk about ongoing dynamics like the wars in Israel or Ukraine, or even just whatever you’re reading.

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Europe has always been historically way to the left of the US in general (not US university campuses) on virtually every metric. So much that in the US it is common for the Left to point to Europe as an example of "civilized countries" that have "common sense policies" that supposedly work very well. Of course, Europe does not have the history of slavery and racial segregation that US has, so in that aspect - which takes a lot of space in woke mindset - the US is necessary in the lead. Canada is trying as hard as they can to whip up their own story with indigenous tribes, but the best Europe can do is colonialism, and it just doesn't have the same punch. So it's hard to see for me how the US could have pushed the Europe to the left while staying themselves to the right. It's hard to me to see how US could have forced Europe to abandon free speech (maybe Germany excluded with the Nazi stuff, but we all know it's way beyond Nazis for the long time) while keeping it as a value themselves. The mass immigration in Europe started when in the US Bernie Sanders, Clinton and Obama were pronouncing fiery speeches about how we must be tough on illegal immigration. The entrepreneurship values that are still part of the American mythos had, as far as I could see, never been really part of the European one. So I am wondering here - what exactly did the American ideology shaped in Europe to cause what is happening in Europe now? Sure, American money I can get, but so far I think the deal has been more or less "you give us money and military protection, we tell you how much better we are than you". I just fail to see any casual link that allows blaming what's happening to Europe on America. Maybe on American academia in particular, but those have been looking up to Europe for their whole history.

So it's hard to see for me how the US could have pushed the Europe to the left while staying themselves to the right.

I mean, it's fairly simple:

Europe has always been historically way to the left of the US in general (not US university campuses)

The US stayed on the right in the sense that the general population did so, but US university campuses were to the left of even Europe as per your own arguments. It is them that moved Europe to the left. Wokeness was so alien to the European left that for the longest time we had a "it's just a couple crazy kids on the internet"-esque cope saying that wokeness is an American thing that has no relevance in Europe. It was obviously wrong in retroscpect, but it's not something you could have predicted while talking to European left-wingers at the time.

The mass immigration in Europe started when in the US Bernie Sanders, Clinton and Obama were pronouncing fiery speeches about how we must be tough on illegal immigration

Sanders was the only one with reasonably strong rhetoric on the issue, it wasn't a "fiery speech" it was an interview question when he was explicitly asked about open borders, and he got called racist and sexist for his trouble, as were his followers.

what exactly did the American ideology shaped in Europe to cause what is happening in Europe now?

Black Lives Matter, Trans Women Are Women, 50-Stalins criticisms of the left like "white feminism", the idea that if you're born in a given country, that automatically makes a [insert country]-man. And honestly, even though the idea of free speech wasn't as strong here as it was in the US, cutting off your friends over politics is also something we imported from the US.

It is them that moved Europe to the left.

By which mechanism? US academia does not control anything in Europe, and certainly didn't rebuild Germany or anything like that. I could admit it if Europe's academia were constantly adoring and copying American one, but at least for the "humanities", the relationship is exactly the opposite.

Sanders was the only one with reasonably strong rhetoric on the issue,

That's not true, virtually every prominent Democrat had been pro border enforcement before they were against it. Here's Senator Obama: https://www.c-span.org/clip/news-conference/user-clip-sen-barack-obama-on-illegal-immigration/4656370 you can easily find clips from others. By today's standards, this is literally Hitler. But 2005's standards, that's a common Democrat position which is part of the mandatory program, you can not be a serious politician if you don't support it.

Black Lives Matter, Trans Women Are Women

BLM is indeed uniquely US phenomenon, but I do not think it had any influence on European politics - mass immigration already shifted the power balance by then, and Europe's pro-migration policies have very little connection with it. As for trans issues, Europe is a bit more diverse on that issue (just as the US is if we look per-state) but European ideologues have been at the foundation of it. Psychoanalysis came from Europe. Postmodernism came from Europe. Deconstruction came from Europe. Post-structuralism came from Europe. Without all of this, the theory of "socially constructed gender" would not be possible.

cutting off your friends over politics is also something we imported from the US.

Oh come on. This one is from early 1900's: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/748/804/d0e but I am sure the phenomenon existed long before that.

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