site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   34544 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 6, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

16
Top Bottom New Old Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

And I would agree that minorities still deal with more racism than white people when it comes to day to day interactions, in America.

Where, exactly? In my neck of the woods, it is considered acceptable to say "white people are [negative thing]" and completely unacceptable to do the same with any other race. White people are discriminated against academically and in employment; if you understand what "equal opportunity employment" means, you are reminded of the fact that you'll be discriminated against every time you apply for employment as a white person. To believe that you're more likely to deal with racism in day-to-day interactions as a minority, I would have to put a huge amount of emphasis on microaggressions, perhaps to the point of treating things like this as a personal affront.

To believe that you're more likely to deal with racism in day-to-day interactions as a minority, I would have to put a huge amount of emphasis on microaggressions

I don't buy the idea of microaggressions, but I do think the idea points toward something real. Namely that the racism minorities experience is a sort of silent or unconscious 'looking over,' without realizing it you may tune out concerns or people from cultures not your own. I've caught myself doing it enough, as a white person.

Now I do think the whole racism card is massively overplayed in our society, and that outright blatant racism towards white people is both egregious and shockingly accepted. That's a problem. However, white people by and large still have quite a few cultural advantages, and even the most woke liberals I know tend to mostly associate with other white people in their personal lives. That's definitely an advantage.

Much of the Bible Belt and Gulf Coast. In my neck of the woods it's more acceptable to call someone the N word than support BLM, Confederate flags are less controversial than LGBT rainbow flags, etc. TheMotte seems to heavily oversample blue state right wingers and not have many people from rural red states dominated by borderers and evangelicals.

I lived in a Bible Belt town in Alabama for a little while (military), the people there are just very conservative, that's all.

In my neck of the woods it's more acceptable to call someone the N word than support BLM

If you did a poll and found 5% of white Southerners think it's acceptable to use the N-word and 3% support BLM I might find that believable, but that venn diagram would not be particularly representative.

Also FWIW I honestly probably encountered as many pride flags on the gulf coast as Confederate flags I even saw a few houses who flew both.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats