This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Most preachy shows also assume that - otherwise they wouldn't count on the audience to shell out dollars for watching woke tropes - but still preach like crazy. I think the difference is not that. There's two ways of promoting certain ideas in cinema. One is to have human attractive characters to act in accordance with these ideas and make the audience draw their own conclusions. So, if you wanted to promote racial integration, you just feature a diverse cast (hopefully avoiding blunders like casting a black person to play Bjorn Ironside) and make them act like it's normal, without mentioning it. The audience gets the message "racial integration is the normal thing". The other way is to draw attention to this fact constantly, lampshade it mercilessly and have the characters to pronounce wooden monologues about how happy they are that they have racial integration and how it's long about time they had it and how eager they are to have more of it, because nothing could be better than more racial integration. The audience gets the message "they really want to push racial integration on me, at the cost of sacrificing everything that makes movies fun". The Community manages to do the former, while most woke content past about 2016 do the latter with gusto.
What do you mean Anne Boleyn wasn't Afro-Caribbean? đ
So objecting to the casting of Bjorn ironside or Anne Boleyn on the grounds that "but they weren't black" is racist, you bigot!
But Henry was white and, what amused me most, so was their daughter, Elizabeth. I suppose even for Channel 5 casting a biracial baby for an iconic historical figure would have been that one step too far?
I would love to live in a society where that actually would work - i.e. we don't fret about eye color or foot size of the actor not matching the same of the role. Maybe one day all the race stuff would be so trivialized that it would sound like complaining "we know from this obscure portrait that Anne had green eyes but this actor has brown eyes!" - but we're very far from it right now, unfortunately. Moreover, we're so far from it that the mere access to this idea is now gated by the wokes - you can only do race switches in a particular woke-approved manner with an explicitly stated woke goals, otherwise it's "blackface" or "whitewashing" or some other thoughtcrime.
More options
Context Copy link
If they'd just called it "Anne Boleyn, Vampire Hunter", nobody would care that she was black.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link