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Time for some good old fashioned gender politics seethe:
https://old.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/11of65g/i_21m_asked_my_friend_21f_to_be_fwb_and_now_she/?sort=confidence
A clearly very socially awkward nerdy literal virgin (despite being 21 years old) guy thinks a cute girl in his study group is flirting with him. He takes her aside privately after a study session and asks her… does she want to be his FWB (friends with benefits)? He reasons that he wants to have fun like many young men and isn’t looking for a relationship right now.
The girl is shocked and taken aback. She turns him down flat and appears uncomfortable. He feels uncomfortable too and apologizes to her and leaves.
Over the next few weeks, she doesn’t say anything to him at study sessions. He tries to make contact again, not to proposition her, but just to resume their friendly acquaintanceship. She tells him directly that she doesn’t want to speak to him. He is hurt but understands and leaves her be. Soon enough, he learns that she has told her friends and extended social circle what happened, and he is widely reviled as a creep. He feels hurt and violated. He laments that he has lost a friend, and now feels like he’s being lambasted for an innocent error, and he wishes the whole thing would just end and go away.
My take on OP is sympathetic. He comes off as extremely awkward and clearly isn’t well versed in the endless myriad of opaque and seemingly contradictory rules of modern dating. He wanted an FWB, and he didn’t understand that the socially acceptable way to get one is to ask a girl out on a date (usually through Tinder), then hook up with her, then either stay as vague as possible for as long as possible about your intentions while continuing to periodically fuck, or to sort of half way shrug after a fuck session and say, “yeah, I’m just really not looking for anything serious right now.” OP genuinely thought he was being upfront and honest with another person, and assumed that he was proposing something mutually beneficial.
Yes, it’s not a good idea to outright proposition a girl to be an FWB in a library. It’s awkward and weird and I can see how it made her feel uncomfortable. But all signs point to OP making an innocent error. He didn’t know any better. When he became aware of his mistake, he immediately apologized, gave the offended party space, and only later attempted to reestablish contact in a friendly, non-threatening manner. He made an innocent mistake and responded in the best possible way.
And Reddit’s response to OP is… calling him a massive piece of shit in every conceivable way.
What I find interesting about the overwhelming criticisms of OP is that they split in two completely opposite directions, but seemingly from the same critics.
On the one hand, OP is relentlessly slut shamed. He is accused of treating this woman like a “flesh light,” of feeling “entitled” to sex, of creepily trying to fuck an acquaintance, of pursuing sex with a girl instead of trying to date thine lady like a proper Victorian gentleman.
On the other hand, OP is relentlessly virgin shamed. He’s an incel, a fool, a creepy moron. He’s daring to try to have casual sex when he hasn’t even lost his virginity because he is SUCH A MASSIVE FUCKING LOSER. OP doesn’t understand that casual sex is only for chads who have fucked a bunch of girls, FWBs are an unlockable perk, not a privilege of the sexually unworthy.
Fortunately, there is a minority of Reddit commenters backing OP up, but it is a small minority. Meanwhile, many more posters are saying that OP is well on the way to becoming an incel or Andrew Tate fan, and unfortunately, they’re right, just not in the way they think they are.
I don’t have a larger point for this post, only that it’s incredibly frustrating that a significant portion of mainstream culture has erected these standards for the dating marketplace where one false step not only does, but should result in social and moral annihilation.
I feel some sympathy for OP that he's so clueless and has had so little experience or advice that he thought "Hi, we've had some positive interactions in class so... wanna fuck?" would be an acceptable approach.
But my sympathy is limited - unless he's literally impaired (i.e., autism spectrum, and even then, most folks on the spectrum are able to learn some baseline rules, particularly when it comes to asking people for sex), this was just unbelievably stupid.
I've seen a number of posters suggest that he was done in by bad/disingenuous feminist dating advice, implying that women will tell men "Yes, we like to fuck just as much as you do!" and that means you can approach a woman for sex the same way you wish a woman would approach you for sex. But I don't recall ever seeing dating advice, even from feminists, suggesting that any woman wants a proposition like "How about being my no-strings-attached fuck buddy?" That's a relationship that usually develops from mutual attraction and having hung out together enough that clearly there are some sparks, but neither one (claims) to want a "relationship."
(Do I think "FWB" is generally a stable kind of relationship? No, and I believe that very few women really want to be someone's FWB, it's something they settle for while trying to secure a real commitment.)
So this poor guy wasn't ill-intentioned, but he made an absolutely horrible social blunder, one that anyone, man or woman, could have told him was a blunder, and unfortunately he's suffering the effects people usually do when committing a massive faux pas. It sounds like the consequences for him are that she's told all her friends (and realistically, would you expect her not to?) and he's probably sunk what dating prospects he had at that school. This is sad, but unless this becomes a story of him being charged with actual sexual harassment and academically punished (which I'll grant is certainly within the realm of possibility), I don't think he's suffering more than you'd expect. He fucked up, and fucking up has consequences.
All he did was verbalize a reasonable request. If he’d made a physical move, it would have amounted to the same thing, except it might have worked. He gets shit for choosing the most innocuous option available, speech.
You serve him the ‘freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences’ hogwash. “This is sad”, indeed. Take responsibility for the punishment instead of delegating it to the passive machinery of consequences. People decided to punish him. Should he be punished for such a crime?
You think asking a female classmate "Hey, wanna be my fuck buddy?" is a reasonable request?
I'm not sure what you mean by "physical move" here. The only thing I can think of is pretty uncharitable - surely, you're not suggesting he should have just grabbed her?
You know, sometimes that's actually true. If I approach a woman and say "Hi, wanna fuck?" I am not breaking any laws, but I am certainly committing an egregious faux pas and should expect consequences for that.
Yes. Not literally, since it's not literally a crime. But yes, if you fuck up socially, you get punished socially.
Do you think it should be socially acceptable for men to just straight up ask women for sex without fear of women finding that creepy?
Is it a reasonable request for gays and lesbians?
No, I do not mean rape her over her screams, friend. Of course I mean officially approved infinitesimal physical escalation, like gradually maintaining eye contact for a femtosecond longer than usual, lightly blowing in her direction when she's not looking, sitting one hair closer to her, brushing against her clothed arm for a planck time, and so on, over the course of a lifetime. Or he could just try to kiss her.
Still too passive. We both know his judges will be women. Will you join them in shunning him (say, if you were both regulars at a sports club), or are you just passively accepting their judgment?
Yeah, not worthy of punishment at all. I'd go further though. I think from a pro-social view it reflects well on his character, though not on his smarts and social skills (not that I think it's 'unbelievably stupid' either. What's with the hyperbole, jesus).
I don't know. Supposing it is, how would that make it reasonable for straight guys?
I suppose that could work, but that presumes some level of game which our OP clearly did not have in the first place.
I wouldn't "shun" him, but I'd agree with them that that's creepy behavior and if he asked me, I'd tell him "What the hell were you thinking?"
How about "believably stupid" then?
No, I don't think it reflects well on anyone's character to go around asking for no-strings-attached sex and expect that no one will react negatively to that.
The universality of the human condition, I guess. If I consider it unjustified to act a certain way in one situation, changing one minor parameter should not change my opinion. Take one's own experience: I find it difficult to think of an analoguous situation where I would react with such pettyness. Eg, if my male friend confesses he's gay and proposes to have sex with me, it's going to make the friendship weird for a while to say the least, but shunning him and telling everyone he's a piece of shit? Unjustified.
No, I would hope you'd be kinder than that to your friend, but you'd probably tell him "Dude, what the fuck?"
Random classmate you've been chatty with who suddenly asks if you'd like to be his fuck buddy? I would not blame you for telling him to back the hell off, or for telling your other friends what a weirdo he is. Is that different from "shunning him and telling everyone he's a piece of shit"? That's going to be largely a matter of perspective. Apparently you think this girl's only appropriate response was a polite "No thank you" and then pretend it never happened. I think you are putting an unreasonable expectation on her. She's not only supposed to not take offense, but also not mention it because it might be embarrassing to poor OP.
Why would I be softer on her than I would be on myself? Have you seen Dogville ? It toes the line to unwatchable arthouse crap, but the ending is cool.
From a higher vantage point, I don't view maintaining the current social order, where legible propositions and social awkwardness are harshly punished, as moral. Especially when there is no legitimate answer to his conundrum, according to its proponents. When me and the gang suggest the more viable way, physical escalation, it's also worthy of condemnation. That means to them his desires are immoral in themselves, and I won't accept that.
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