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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   5634 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 12, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

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So, in the CWR thread there was an exchange where @2rafa got a bit piled on for claiming that most men don't have lots of casual sex not because they can't, but because they don't particularly want to compared to competing activities. I'm not interested in relitigating the conversation, but the following bit struck me (conversation massively snipped for the relevant parts):

From @2rafa:

Because most men do, in fact, show a revealed preference for long term relationships. [...] I think most men who don't pursue sleeping with huge numbers of women don't do so because they don't want to, not because they can't.

And from @Amadan:

[Y]our rather touchingly naive view that down deep we're all just looking for our waifu is not really true. [...] But most men who don't do it [have sex with large numbers of women], unless they have strong religious or other reasons not to, absolutely would do it if they had the ability.

Now admittedly I am one of the people with "strong religious ... reasons not to", but this strikes me as off somehow? I mean, sure, most men have some level of desire to have lots of sex with different women, but people have lots of desires, and just because they have a desire doesn't mean they'd preferentially fulfill it, especially if it competes with other ones.

Which leads to my question. What fraction of men (say, in their twenties) are better described as (a) "looking for [their] waifu" - i.e. want to find a good wife (and then, presumably, also have lots of sex with her), with little serious interest in casual sex, or (b) "absolutely would [have lots of casual sex] if they had the ability"?

For (heterosexual) men, which is/was more true of you? For anyone, what fraction of men do you think are are "team find a wife" vs "team casual sex"?

Third Option - Most men don't want to do either.

Having a long term, monogamous relationship is hard and takes work.

Living a real-world player lifestyle is possible only with either a) crazy social status and wealth (Movie stars, athletes) or b) a normal guy putting a ton of work (getting into shape, being better than average with fashion and, mostly - running game like crazy and mostly failing).

I'd say most men don't want to do this (save for those who have religious or other personal/social strong bias for family) because the average returns to either are questionable. Divorce in the U.S. is 50/50 and not much better in Western Europe. Player lifestyle - while more attainable than many would think - operates on batters baseball levels of success; 25% (.250 batting average) is OK, 30% is a good season, and anything at or over 40% makes you a hall-of-famer.

There are far higher expected returns to putting in extra work into a career. Once you get out of minimum wage service industry level work (no offense to those who are still in it), top 20% performance is mostly an equation of hours worked and a little social / political awareness (either to move up in a large company, artfully job hop every 2 - 3 years, or to network effectively for external business in a small company). Top 10% is being able to make the jump to management. Top 1% is getting groovy with risk taking and truly understanding your market (and, yes, a spot of luck).

Which leads me to what I think is an interesting twist to the original question. Which would Men opt for; perfect wifey with no possibility of divorce / hen-pecking / dead bedroom, or 100% guaranteed discreet access to world class prostitutes. Again, caveats about personal morality / religiosity apply.

b) a normal guy putting a ton of work (getting into shape, being better than average with fashion and, mostly - running game like crazy and mostly failing).

I did this for several years and found the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. Juggling multiple cute girls is a lot of work and at least personally I found it better to spend my efforts on a single quality girl. Then I could spend my free time on hobbies rather than going out for drinks on a weeknight.

I know one of the more popular Pick Up Artist gurus talks about a theme he noticed during the heyday of that community. He divided PUAs into two camps, Thrill of the Hunt guys and Pleasure of Sex guys. Some guys are really into variety, while others are happy with a stable rotation of girls they can have better sex with compared to one night stands.

Yeah, presuming that men would have sex with as many women as possible if possible seems to come from a place of inexperience. I enjoy flirting and am good at it, but texting back and forth with five women at once literally takes all your time. It will consume your entire evening, and you won't have as nearly an in-depth conversation as you could have had one on one. I suspect that only the most dedicated womanizer could keep that pace up long-term.

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