site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   34440 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 13, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

15
Top New Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I think that people do tend to become dissatisfied after a while in any situation as novelty and excitement wears off.

I can understand twenty-somethings in their first long-term relationship having second thoughts, and wondering if they can do better. I can also agree that novelty and excitement inevitably wears off, but I don't see how that necessarily implies dissatisfaction.

I don't know what will make people happier about "I'm stuck with only one person to have sex with, and it's not as exciting as it used to be, and I wish I could be grazing on that greener grass on the other side of the fence".

Shame? Mockery? Psy-ops equal to in strength but opposite in direction to the current ones, which would glorify sticking through tough times, instead of chasing butterflies in your stomach?

I do think as you get older, the range of possibilities shuts down. When you're in your 40s and 50s, there's now a lot of paths you never took and will never get to take, a lot of choices and responsibilities you have made and taken upon yourself. You're getting older, and the range of your future is narrowing bit by bit (another thirty years of life is now less ahead than behind you, much different than being in your 20s). Everyone begins to wonder "Is that it? Is this all I have? Could I have done better? Could I do better?"

Having a fling is one way of reassuring yourself that you're still desirable and capable of spontaneity. 'Familiarity breeds contempt' is a saying for a reason, we get used to what we have and don't find it interesting or valuable anymore, because we expect to have it. Now, if you imbibed the modern notion that "being in love" is the only reason for going into and staying in a relationship, then finding "but I don't feel like I am in love" may persuade you to break things by having a fling or deciding you will leave your spouse and take up with newer version. The views of duty and sticking with something and that indeed change is inevitable and we must deal with that are less popular, because they are so restrictive. Why can't I have it all, what is the good of being someone living in the modern age with all the choices my ancestors could never have, if I'm going to be stuck with "just like your grandparents, you are going to find that the pink fizzy excitement wears off and you are living a companionate relationship instead of one of high passion and excitement every day".

What would psy-ops opposite in direction to the current ones even look like? Divorce makes for easy TV because it's dramatic and I think that's an underrated factor in current psy-ops.

Something like the Stark family in GoT, but with less tragedy is the first thing that comes to my mind.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats