Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
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Notes -
Machiavelli's writings are amoral, but not self-induldgent porn. Concerned with useful knowledge of how things are, what works, and concerned with the public good (secure, well ran states).
De Sade, from what I gather was a somewhat psychopathic sadomasochist hedonist who couldn't stay on the right side of law despite being an aristocrat and having unlimited funds to bribe people with , and whose pornographic novels were rendered worse by included elaborate rationalisations explaining how morality is meaningless so he can really do whatever he wants.
I really don't understand why Napoleon didn't have him hanged for the sodomy and rape charges that resulted in de Sade having to run away to Italy. Maybe he thought prison was more cruel, that's up for debate.
Supposedly, he showed some value by satirising the cretins of the enlightenment, chiefly Rousseau, but that doesn't redeem him one bit in my eyes.
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