site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 17, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Frankly at this point I'm just riding the tides. Whatever happens, happens. This will be like the fifth once in a generation event I've lived through, and like the 20th doomsday scenario. I don't have the energy to care anymore. I have apocalypse fatigue.

Once you accept that these are forces which you can't individually impact, the path forward becomes pretty clear.

Just set things up to maximize your chances of living to see whatever crazy future we end up with.

And maybe have some fun along the way.

But there could be a utopia! Unlike Nuclear and other scenarios, I think it's likely this moves us far closer to a utopia, soon.

People thought this about Nuclear and the other ones too if you remember.

There will be no utopia, because utopia is not a thing that exists. Our lives might get better and worse in various ways, but the idea of a perfect society, and by extension of moving towards a perfect society, has always been delusional.

No utopia, just a shifted technological landscape.

but the idea of a perfect society, and by extension of moving towards a perfect society, has always been delusional.

Some delusions are worth chasing my friend. Chasing the delusion of truth, intellectual honesty, and rigor led us to the Scientific revolution, which brought us where we are today. Just because you don't think it's likely doesn't mean those seeking utopia are fools.

Utopia doesn't exist the same way any other ideal doesn't exist. Does that mean you shouldn't strive to be kind or love others?

There could be a utopia but it could only be achieved by either

  1. Changing the human race fundamentally to remove the desire for accomplishment or status

  2. Hiding the true nature of reality and creating a unique simulation for each human that would provide a fulfilling life path for that person

Why do you think this is the case? And what does a 'fundamental' change mean?

The goal of the axial revolution has always been to improve ourselves. We are slowly becoming better, in my opinion. Less violent, more understanding, more focused on technical accomplishment. If we continue on that path and eventually eschew (most) status, is that a fundamental change or an incremental one?

There could be! And that would be nice! But like with giving in to doom-mongering, I'm also not going to get my hopes up, either. Realistically, whatever's going to happen is going to happen regardless of whether I get hyped up or stressed out about it.

Yeah I try and keep a cool head as well. I'd love to quit my job and party till the singularity comes but it may not be the best idea...