site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   33044 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 17, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Top Bottom New Old Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

You might be interested in this post on LessWrong which discusses Scaffolded LLM's as natural language computers.. I'd be curious on @DaseindustriesLtd's take on this as well.

Key points:

What we have essentially done here is reinvented the von-Neumann architecture and, what is more, we have reinvented the general purpose computer. This convergent evolution is not surprising -- the von-Neumann architecture is a very natural abstraction for designing computers. However, if what we have built is a computer, it is a very special sort of computer. Like a digital computer, it is fully general, but what it operates on is not bits, but text. We have a natural language computer which operates on units of natural language text to produce other, more processed, natural language texts. Like a digital computer, our natural language (NL) computer is theoretically fully general -- the operations of a Turing machine can be written as natural language -- and extremely useful: many systems in the real world, including humans, prefer to operate in natural language. Many tasks cannot be specified easily and precisely in computer code but can be described in a sentence or two of natural language.

The LLM itself is clearly equivalent to the CPU. It is where the fundamental 'computation' in the system occurs. However, unlike the CPU, the units upon which it operates are tokens in the context window, not bits in registers. If the natural type signature of a CPU is bits -> bits, the natural type of the natural language processing unit (NLPU) is strings -> strings.

The RAM is just the context length. GPT4 currently has an 8K context or an 8kbit RAM (theoretically expanding to 32kbit soon). This gets us to the Commodore 64 in digital computer terms, and places us in the early 80s.

The obvious thing to think about when programming a digital computer is the programming language. Can there be programming languages for NL computers? What would they look like? Clearly there can be. We are already beginning to build up the first primitives. Chain of thought. Selection-inference. Self-correction loops. Reflection. These sit at a higher level of abstraction than a single NLOP. We have reached the assembly languages. CoT, SI, reflection, are the mov, leq, and goto, which we know and love from assembly. Perhaps with libraries like langchains and complex prompt templates, we are beginning to build our first compilers, although they are currently extremely primitive.

I find this framing extremely persuasive, and awesome in the true sense. If transformers can actually act as a new type of general purpose computer using natural language, the world will become strange indeed very quickly.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats