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Contrapoints released her newest video yesterday. As someone who has found a number of her past videos to be well done and interesting (they're generally better the further back you go), this one was disappointing. Some random thoughts:
Contrapoints made a name for herself through actually engaging with the "alt-right" and by being willing to make real arguments in response to conservatives; now it seems like she's totally bought into some of the worst argumentation styles of the woke left. Most annoying to me is the frequency with which Natalie begs the question by referring to "trans rights" as if they're some unobjectionable, neutral thing that only "bigots" could oppose. Interestingly, the only time she actually concretely discusses a supposed "trans right" (males competing in women's sports), she agrees that there is a debate to be had here. Of course, no mention of kids transitioning, males in women's prisons, etc. Just "trans rights" in the abstract. The one thing Contrapoints is clear about is that not acknowledging that "trans women are women" is at the least "transphobic" (if not a violation of "trans rights" in some hard to define way), which is interesting. What does it mean to be "transphobic"? Could one not be "transphobic" and still refuse to acknowledge that "trans women are women"? Because I would like to say that I'm not "transphobic" on the basis that I don't think trans people should be denied rights that we accord to others, or that they should be forcibly prevented from dressing like women, or even (if over 18) allowed to surgically alter themselves to match their desired gender identity (perhaps with some reasonable safeguards).
I think she makes some good arguments about the fact that there are always limits to debate. She talks about how LGBTQ activists essentially "cancelled" an old anti-gay activist Anita Bryant, with the implication that most people nowadays would agree with that cancellation. Of course, I would simply say that there are meaningful differences between gay activism and trans activism (e.g., gay people were fighting against laws that criminalized consensual behavior between adults; trans people often are fighting to allow children to mutilate themselves). Nonetheless, I do take her point: Arguing against "cancellation" or "illiberal" tactics in the abstract is kind of pointless, because almost no one is a true free speech absolutist here. If, say, someone was going around and gathering a following by literally advocating for the murder of Jews, I think a lot of us would agree that public shaming (at the least) would be appropriate. That means that one must always have some object-level discussion about what people are being cancelled for before one can reasonably argue that any given cancellation is unacceptable. It's hardly a groundbreaking observation, but it's true nonetheless that there must be a line somewhere that would make "cancel culture" type tactics acceptable; we're all just debating where that line is.
Finally, I was surprised to see how much more aggressive Rowling has gotten in her anti-trans rhetoric. Not that I necessarily disagree with her, but it looks like I can no longer say that she's being unfairly smeared as an enemy of the trans movement.
Anyways, I would be curious on others thoughts here (assuming anyone is willing to watch a nearly two hour video by someone most would consider an ideological opponent.
Whatever came of Contrapoints getting canceled by other trans figures? Some right-wingers gloated about meta-cancer back then, but I guess you don't really cancel your stars after all?
This is a narrative which was promoted by the media, yes, I even imagine there's a grain of truth in it, but if she actually engaged with the «alt-right», it was on the condescending level of cooing and petting a spooked animal (and argument-free reviews to the effect of «I used to be in a dark place as a 4channer giganazi Cookie Monster joke enjoyer, but Contra
detransitionedderadicalized me, thanks now I can be myself» only reinforce this image. I have to plug in my old post «On Nazi Whisperers and closed memetic surfaces».Almost four years later, I still can't get into the mindset of a person who thinks his side loses every unbiased debate, but keeps believing in the cause and evangelizing it. This is a total profanation of what debates mean to me, on any level from the most brutish, chimp-like rhetorical power contest to the most quokka-esque rationalist «collaborative inquiry»; if not rigorous doubt, then at least depressive resignation ought to settle in as a result of repeatedly getting routed, I feel.
What I do know is that such robust belief grows coupled with disregard for debate and honesty in general.
The worst part of all this "the Nazis and fascists are super good at rhetoric" talk is that it's not even true. Destiny has been consistently demonstrating that they're no different from most debaters i.e garbage for the most part. Destiny's retorts aren't perfect, and he has a certain attitude necessary to deal with this kind of debate, but he's consistently come out on top rhetorically against basically every far-right person he's debated.
If Destiny didn't exist, I would understand, but he's literally spent years doing exactly what they're claiming can't be done. Which is understandable for Breadtube, whose creators are not interested in developing the skills to be internet debaters instead of content creators. But their community is collectively responsible if they can't generate anyone who is willing to do the dirty work.
It's kind of true. "Super good at rhetoric" is relative. Normies get BTFO by guys called Dirlewanger_Respecter on twitter all the time. When you adopt extremist and fringe political positions you have to develop at least some rudimentary rhetorical skills to defend them, which may not be all that much, but are still leagues beyond those of your average person who rarely thinks even that much about their politics.
I think another contributing factor might be that everyone else is using weighted clothing, so to speak. Dirlewanger_Respecter doesn't have to give a shit that his argument could be construed as racist or sexist or transphobic, and at the same time he doesn't have to dance around all the various inconvenient truths that lie in wait for non-shitlords. Adolf_Kekler_42069 can make the correct argument that having massive riots and burning things down isn't actually a method of protest that contributes to achieving political goals, but if you're on the left saying something like that is enough to get you fired, even if you're so non-racist you actually worked on Obama's campaign. A significant portion of the "good, useful arguments" space is just completely verboten thanks to social justice culture/purity policing.
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The people in question are internet political and cultural commentators. Not normies. They're not those annoying prank channels, these are the people discussing ideology, philosophy, politics, etc. They talk a lot about ideas and theories, they only show their own incompetence when they demonstrate an inability to do rhetoric effectively.
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