This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I’d like to solicit themotte’s thoughts on the ethics of piracy. Specificlly movies, software, and music.
Sharing copyrighted data has been a part of the internet landscape for as long as there has been networked computers. I know it traces back to the bbs days and likely even earlier than that.
Back in the early aughts I was involved in a forum where we would scan for unsecured FTP servers and then fill them with the latest movie music and software releases straight from the groups who actually created and distributed the files. The beauty of this is that you were transferring between commercial networks so the speeds were ludicrous.
This was not long after Napster popularized file sharing and typical online user was very much of the opinion that copying data and sharing it was not equivalent to stealing. Maybe it was the circles I traveled in and my age at the time, but nearly everyone was ethically fine with downloading media. The only reason one wouldn’t do it was that there you needed some minimal level of technical know how to find more than just music on p2p networks. The only folks opposed to it were media corporations, some artists, and a small amount of corporate shills.
Once iTunes, steam, Netflix’s, Spotify, and other commercial options became available, most people stopped file sharing and simply bought media. It was a common to hear the refrain that piracy was a result of lack of access to media online. If there was ease of access and a fair price, most people would be happy to purchase software. This sentiment is still common but I sense it’s become less prominent over the last few years. The streaming environment has become quite fracutured and has impaired both the ease of access and price point for legally consuming media online.
The point of this post is to suggest that people’s opinion on the ethics of media piracy is diametrically opposed to where it was for most of the internets history. The median online opinion that I see is that piracy = theft. Many of these people are young and have been thought from an early age that piracy is not ethical. I suspect that many have also changed their opinion as they age and perhaps are not working at software/medi companies where piracy not affects them directly.
From a personal perspective, I stopped pirating media when iTunes and steam hit the market because it was in fact easier to obtain things legally and I was happy to pay.
That changed about 4 years ago when I realized that I could not in good conscience pay money to Hollywood and leftist game developers. I am happy to pirate their software and steal their movies because the alternative is so distasteful to me. I will occasionally really enjoy something and find the creators to be acceptable enough to support. In those cases I will purchase something after the fact to support people that I agree with. I encourage everyone to do the same. Enforcement of file sharing these days is non-existent. You can pretty much use the the pirate bay without worry and ignore the occasional email from you isp asking you to stop. Though there are many other alternatives out there that don’t take long to find.
I agree and I think that has changed over time. Some reasons.
-- I've swung towards paying for some things as I age. Part of this is that I am richer than I was as a child, and I consume less content and what I do consume is more obscure, so it is easier for me to pay for it. Part of it is that I can see content I like disappearing from the world. When I was a kid Borders and Barnes and Noble were everywhere, counting the Walden Books sub brand there were at least 5 corporate bookstores in my town. Now I think there is one Barnes and Noble left a couple towns over, and even that location is a shadow of itself. I shop for books exclusively at one of two local bookstores, if they don't have the weird book I want in stock they order it for me. When I was a kid, not buying a book at Borders was just saving money and avoiding giving it to the corporate villain from You've Got Mail or later to Amazon; now I'm very aware of the possibility that if the small bookstores go under I won't be able to get new books anywhere but Amazon. As a result I feel a certain responsibility, as a book lover, to buy new books from the small bookstore. This goes equally for small time bands whose albums I buy directly at concerts where before I'd pirate it, for blogs and podcasts where before I'd get it for free, for local independent movie theaters that show obscure films where before I'd sneak in, for all kinds of things. I used to take it for granted that there would be music, movie theaters, bookstores, books, etc. I've come to realize that if I don't support the things I want, they won't happen. I used to feel like some sucker would always pay for the things I wanted to exist, I've realized that might not happen. Is my singular effort futile? Probably, but what isn't?
-- Piracy used to be easier than doing it legally, now it is more difficult in a lot of cases. I only really pirate things if I have trouble finding them legally. There is more legal content than you can possibly make use of if you have an Amazon Prime subscription and a Spotify subscription, why bother illegally streaming? Moreover, the guy who was super into piracy and talked about it used to seem cool and in the know, he had access to things I didn't, I had only my paltry CD collection he had a library of millions of songs and movies. Now we both have access to millions of songs, I just pay a half hour a month in wages to have access to it all whenever I want. Now the guy who is still super into piracy strikes me as kind of annoying and hectoring, closer to a coupon clipper or the guy who refuses to pay for parking than to a guy who is getting one over on the system.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link