This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Modern progressivism molted off its libertarian-friendly aspects, demonstrating that almost all Libertarian victories over the preceding decades were fake. Libertarian advances required common knowledge that the norms they'd been establishing were durable, reliable, stable. Watching bedrock Libertarian institutions like the ACLU abruptly and undeniably abandon those norms the second it became practical to do so gut-shot the movement. Not only did thirty or forty years of gains evaporate overnight, but the hard-built common knowledge that made those gains possible was destroyed, and replaced with common knowledge that all the arguments those gains were made on were in fact lies.
Skokie worked because it appeared to be a durable principle. Opposition to McCarthyism worked because it appeared to be based on durable principles. We now know that both were merely who, whom, so neither will ever happen again in the foreseeable future. Principled Libertarianism has no constituency. It's a train people ride to their desired destination, and then get off.
In how far was Skokie a case of "Who, whom"?
Insofar as the principle has not been extended to the marchers of the Unite the Right rally, to give one salient example. It was very important for the ACLU to defend the rights of utterly marginal Nazis to march through a Jewish community, when that principle meant solid cover for progressive speech and activism. Now that progressive activism has achieved dominance, the "bedrock" principle of toleration for the speech and activism of people we disagree with retracts neatly and seamlessly, with no complaint from the ACLU.
The whole point of tolerating literal nazis, or literal tankies for that matter, was that we were establishing a general rule of toleration of those with whom we disagree, a rule that protected all of us equally. That rule folded like wet paper the instant the Right tried to appeal to it, and Libertarians were either helpless to prevent this or actively cooperated with it. Either they're liars, or completely impotent and blissfully ignorant. Either way, there's no reason to take anything they say seriously ever again.
“When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles.”
I return to this quote daily at this point.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link