Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?
This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.
Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I realise this may come across as stirring the pot, but I hope I've been here long enough to have earned the benefit of the doubt.
In the context of the HBD debate, could someone please ELI5:
The concept of heritability and how it relates or doesn't relate to genetic causes of individual or group differences. I am aware of the "books at home" example. Is that all there is to it?
What precisely g is?
Steelman(!) Turkheimer's position. No, I don't want to hear about his politics.
Roughly summarise the position of Kirkegaard et al.
This whole debate always gets technical so quickly that I very often just get lost. I don't want to rehash the arguments here, I would like to understand the basics. But the waters are often so damn muddied (purposely so, I suspect) that it's very hard to get a grasp of what people are even fighting about.
"Books at home" is presumably shorthand for a wide range of parenting practices, and indeed I would bet that it originated as a relatively easily measured proxy for parenting practices.
Btw the graph from here happened to be going around today; it shows a large gap in cognitive skills between identical and fraternal twins, but also a substantial gap between siblings raised together and siblings raised apart. (Note that some small pct of the difference between identical and fraternal twins might conceivably be caused by parenting, since at least in the past parents often tended to treat identical twins identically-- dressing them the same, etc -- which might also manifest itself in forcing both to experience some of the same experiences (eg, if one wanted to take violin lessons, both had to). Again, I would guess that would have a very small effect even if true, but of course that is a guess).
Also, one consideration that I never see mentioned in popular discussion of HBD is potential congenital, but not genetic, causes. Eg if poor people have dumber kids than other people, is it all either genetics or upbringing? Or is some the result of greater propensity for drinking, drug use, poor diet, etc during pregnancy?
So if this were a HBD discussion someone would quickly point out that propensity for drinking is also partly genetic, therefore ???
I do not understand why this is brought up so often. Presumably you could claim that there is a policy solution for this (i.e. preventing pregnant women from drinking) and therefore the difference resulting from this type of parenting behaviour (even if it is partly genetic) is not set in stone?
Just saw this posted today.
https://twitter.com/AporiaMagazine/status/1654233104523968512
It's not just partially genetic. The difference in intelligence between two individuals is mostly genetic. Most people, including the credentialled, naively assume the opposite, thus coming to incorrect conclusions about many social problems. That's one reason it gets mentioned a lot here. The other, more important reason, is that the Motte is one of the only places where a reasonable discusssion about HBD is allowed to take place. If we wanted to talk about baseball, there are a million other forums for that.
My apologies, that was awkwardly phrased on my part. What I meant was that I do not understand how the observation that many environmental factors could also be driven by genetics is a counter-argument to the position that in-between group differences are partly genetic. Yet I very often see that happening in HBD discussions.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link