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I dont understand your theory of the case at all. It is that 15 years in prison is an appropriate sentence for... being inexperienced at restraining violent crazy people?
If they die? Yes.
He clearly committed manslaughter, so he gets the punishment for manslaughter.
Why? Neely has been attacking people for years and never got any significant punishment. He served 4 months for assaulting and kidnapping a 7 year old. He served no time at all for punching an old lady. Why is it suddenly so important to charge and punish Penny in particular? We should at most give him some nominal penalty like what Neely got. It's an absurd double standard to allow Neely to rampage around attacking people for his entire life and the the first time someone fights back we make them rot in prison.
Surely the fact that he killed someone should figure in the calculus somewhat, should it not? And in any other context, would you find compelling the argument, "sure, maybe Bob committed a serious crime, but we shouldn't charge him, because his victim was insufficiently punished for completely unrelated crimes"?
What if Joe was a dangerous criminal who escaped from death row, before running into Bob and getting killed in the altercation (Bob knew nothing of Joe’s history)? There’s no real loss here, so punishment would be gratuitous.
And I do think the previously revealed moral character of Joe and Bob should factor in our interpretation of the altercation. If Joe has proven himself unworthy of charity (in the motte sense) , then Bob’s words and actions against Joe should get the benefit of charity in the eyes of the law.
For something like 500 years, Anglo-American criminal law has considered the moral character of the victim, if unknown to the defendant, to be irrelevant to questions of self-defense. So if you are arguing for it to be taken into account in this case, you are arguing for a double standard to be applied.
Can you explain the rationale for the moral character being irrelevant?
Why double standard ? Don't you mean a different standard? Can you refer to, or imagine, a situation where I fall on the other side?
Note that I said that it is irrelevant if unknown to the defendant
Yeah, explain that argument.
The problem I have with it is that the case becomes about thoughtcrime.
It is harder (perhaps impossible) to ascertain the contents of Bob's mind, than the contents of Joe's rap sheet. Common sense dictates we start looking for the keys under the lamppost, ie with Joe's rap sheet. If Joe's rap sheet (and Bob's ) is empty or light, then we can veer into mentalism and voo, ask him to cry convincingly for the jury etc.
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