site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 15, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

9
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

You can have vector clip art that isn't in the ugly GloboHomo style though -- those 80s clip art disks that came in every issue of MacWorld were full of Illustrator files like this; good lookin lady, sort of an art-deco/art-nouveau hybrid, definitely has something like "beauty" as an aim.

Contrast with this: https://networkcultures.org/cloudbaseddesigner/wp-content/uploads/sites/51/2021/03/heroes.001.jpeg -- the ugliness seems almost deliberate.

I don't believe that the top one is more work -- you can knock that stuff out with a stylus in Illustrator really fast, you need an eye for it though. Could just be that there aren't really working illustrators available anymore, IDK.

It's possible that the ugliness is deliberate. For some people, beauty is uncomfortable and alienating. If people are insecure about their appearance or neurotic about unfavourable judgements about other people (especially "marginalized" people) perhaps to the point of trying to reject the very idea of beautiful people (more common than you would think - "Everyone is beautiful" is a rejection of the concept of beautiful people)

More generally, GloboHomo has an emotionally flattening, inclusive, and childlike quality. It wasn't present nurseries when I was young, but I can easily imagine it in them, in a way I can't imagine anything like your first picture being let anywhere near a nursery. It's hygge-culture and wholesomism, extended to art. When I think about it, GloboHomo repels me far more than brutalism or modern art, and that's saying something. At least they aspire to something daring, even if there's more than a little of Satanic bitterness to them. It's the type of thing that makes me want to join the Wagner group, and I'm about as anti-Putin/pro-Ukraine as can be.

Dude, that first one is a Patrick Nagel. If you think just anyone can "knock that stuff out" with Illustrator, well, give it a shot. You're just wrong.

The second link is indeed drawings that are assembled with fairly simple vector techniques (albeit still requiring some design skills).

Yep but it will be one of the first cabs off the rank for AI. People will 'rip it', ie train a model using all his work to create new works, not for sale, which would break copyright but just for themselves and friends. He will still command good prices initially as his meme-print grows but because of the ubiquity and virality of memes, success will inevitably erode value ultimately. Can only have one Warhol period and we've had it.

The disks were probably not full of actual Patrick Nagel files, no -- but that's rather the point isn't it? In the 80s, clip art was imitating Patrick Nagel -- now we are imitating deliberate ugliness on every damn powerpoint deck.

If you think just anyone can "knock that stuff out" with Illustrator, well, give it a shot.

Again, rather the point -- when "just anyone" tries it it kind of looks like crap: https://www.lifewire.com/photo-into-nagel-inspired-vector-portrait-1077506

But someone who is decent with Illustrator (not me) will have a stab at it for 25 buck, so it can't take all that long: https://www.fiverr.com/ikhwantaripa/turn-your-pic-into-my-version-of-a-patrick-nagel-art

I don't think the globohomo is much faster to do -- if you are good with a stylus you can trace a photo very fast, drawing all those donut shapes seems at least as hard.