site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 22, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I have to ask - has anyone ever been sued for a hostile work environment, and the "look at all the woke stuff we're doing" was found to be a valid defense? I'm a bit tired of these mundane "gosh, we didn't want to, but we really had no choice" theories of corporate action.

That wasn't the claim. My claim is that a public anti-trans stance would open them up for lawsuits.

American courts always seemed kind of insane to me, so it wouldn't surprise me, but come on... how can advertising with JK Rowling be grounds for a lawsuit more than advertising with Dylan Mulvaney?

You're a gay employee. You have a fallout with your boss and you are fired. Now you get to claim that your fallout was caused by a culture of homophobia at the company, as evidenced by public statements.

You could construct a similar case with Dylan Mulvaney, but I somehow doubt courts will entertain the idea that those ads are evidence of an anti-Christian or anti-women bias.

You're a gay employee. You have a fallout with your boss and you are fired. Now you get to claim that your fallout was caused by a culture of homophobia at the company, as evidenced by public statements.

Except you won't find any statement by JK Rowling that's homophobic. You won't even find one that's transphobic. Your argument would end up looking like "JK Rowling is perceived by the trans community to be transphobic, therefore advertising with her is an anti-trans statement" or something. Now, like I said American courts are kind of insane to me, so the argument would fly for all I know, but the argument "wouldn't it open them up for a lawsuit" seems to explicitly assume the courts are ridiculously slanted, but the passive voice makes it sound like there's nothing to see here.

Except you won't find any statement by JK Rowling that's homophobic. You won't even find one that's transphobic. Your argument would end up looking like "JK Rowling is perceived by the trans community to be transphobic, therefore advertising with her is an anti-trans statement" or something.

No, it would end up looking like "JK Rowling is a well-known anti-trans hate monger as evidenced by this list of prominent anti-trans hate mongers published by this very serious NGO that employs very serious credentialled people".

Bud Light functionally has no choice but to eat the cost of a frivolous lawsuit for not being gay friendly enough(they will eventually win- American employment law is very pro corporation). They just don’t want to, they want to continue trying to win over liberal underaged drinkers from wine coolers.