site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 22, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

men are attracted to the majority of fertile-age women. Women are only attracted to a small minority of men.

Is there evidence for this? I read an article that says men and women face similar disparities in the top X% of your gender getting a disproportionate amount of attention: https://qz.com/1051462/these-statistics-show-why-its-so-hard-to-be-an-average-man-on-dating-apps . For instance the top 1% of men get 16.4% of the likes from women, while the top 1% of women get 11.2% of the likes from men. So it's worse for men, but not a huge difference really

Men are primarily attracted to youth, beauty, fertility, purity, and nurturing. Women are primarily attracted to height, status, power, money, violence, sexual experience, and dark triad traits.

Is there evidence for this? Some sort of survey or something? (Also, how do we separate nature from nurture?)

Women often follow a dual-mating strategy of sleeping with high-value men in their sexual prime, then settling down with a reliable provider in their later years.

How is "high-value" measured in this case? You said earlier that women are primarily attracted to "height, status, power, money, violence, sexual experience, and dark triad traits." Are you saying that women value these traits in their sexual prime, but cease valuing these traits when they get older?

This is called Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks. You want to be the Alpha Fucks, or at least avoid being the Beta Bucks.

What's wrong with settling down with a reliable partner?

never commit to a woman over 25, never commit to a woman with children

Why not? What would happen if I did that?

pretend you have more sexual experience than you do, project confidence, never appear needy or desperate, etc.

Has it occurred to you that lying might have negative consequences? If I'm actually feeling needy or desperate for whatever reason, isn't it better to seek out people (romantically or otherwise) who can deal with the emotions I actually have, instead of wearing a mask all my life?

Personally I have a long history of being smothered by masks.

For the first 2 questions regarding evidence: I am sure there is a lot of peer-reviewed evidence out of there of all sorts of quality. But the real proof lies in the fact that anyone (man or woman) in modern Western World can state these sentences in a small trusted friend group, in appropriate wording, and they will be taken as self-evident truths. Indeed, this is usually very good way of smoking out "hidden truths" of a society.

Are you saying that women value these traits in their sexual prime, but cease valuing these traits when they get older?

This is a correct understanding. Many women choose more reliable types of guys later in life if they are still on the dating market.

Why not? What would happen if I did that?

I am not totally sure but I believe the OP's thinking is that women will age and lose beauty/fertility very fast after this age. There might be some "purity" considerations at play here as well. Dating and hooking up with many people inevitably makes one much more cynical after a while and you have to stunt your powers of emotional connection a bit to deal with a series of breakups without going mad. The child thing sounds like an off-shoot of this.

Has it occurred to you that lying might have negative consequences? If I'm actually feeling needy or desperate for whatever reason, isn't it better to seek out people (romantically or otherwise) who can deal with the emotions I actually have, instead of wearing a mask all my life?

I believe the idea is that after a couple of times you won't be lying anymore! A lot of red pill stuff is best thought off as a for-dummies guide and not a life-long strategy. The target demographics is people who are absolutely clueless, and the ideal case is to change their perspective and give them some practical tips so they understand the rules of the "game", get a feel for it, and then do their own thing.

You may feel like she's better off alone than with you. You might be wrong about it (and hopefully you're in the process of becoming wrong on that count by improving yourself and becoming more self-sufficient+attractive).

If you act like she's better off alone, you'll likely convince her. Don't have to give women excuses to reject you, they manage fine by themselves.