This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It was her bike, they had returned it and she had rented it. They were trying to enforce a claim that the lockout was expressly designed to prevent someone not paying for a bike and using it all day preventing others from using it.
They had every right to pay for the bike, and use it as long as they wished, but since they didn't it was entirely up for anyone else to use.
I hope their actions end the free 45 minutes for everyone, this is why we can't have nice things.
Right, but it does have extra charges after 45 minutes to prevent someone with the subscription claiming a bike in perpetuity for free and denying them to paid customers. You don't get 720 hours of bike rental for $5, you get 45 minutes each time you need it over the course of the month, plus more if you pay more. Which these kids were deliberately attempting to subvert, exploiting the technicalities to claim bikes for long periods of time, denying them to paid customers.
That seems like it might be a necessary evil, and why we can't have nice things. Because of bad faith actors who attempt to exploit simple systems, it's necessary to create stricter regulations that have annoying side effects on good faith actors. Because it's entirely reasonable for some people to go somewhere, spend less than 2 hours there, and then need to leave, which your stricter regulations will harm. Might be necessary, but it would be nice if people could just be more ethical and it wasn't necessary. Like those stores and stands that don't have a cashier and just ask people nicely to put money in a box. It's efficient, it saves labor and thus enables cheaper prices for customers. But they can only survive in high trust areas. It'd be nice if there could be more of those.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
This seems a very bizarre conception of decorum. Ok, they hadn't technically rented it and she in theory was able to, but recognising that good manners require you to refrain from doing things you are 'entitled' to do is the most basic and foundational rule of social grace.
Except the "camp the bike" rule, if allowed as "good decorum" means lots of people will show up to bike rental stations where no bikes are available when the app told them it was. There have been many stories corroborating the nurse where a guy went to the station, and was menaced away by roving bands of professional victims and had to walk to the next station, and then the next.
They are basically lying, kidnapping, and assaulting all at once!
How do you figure?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link