site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 12, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

While a somewhat interesting idea, I think it falls pray to missing the point. The opposition to trans isn’t solely rooted in a logical question about categories; it is rooted in the concept that trans ideology imposes social costs (often by harming girls and youngwomen), can be a fetish the person is making others play out with him, and doesn’t lead to human flourishing.

Step moms often can be pro social and therefore the debate about “are they a mom” isn’t really important in the same way.

Without necessarily subscribing to the position myself, couldn't one make a similar argument for fracturing the definition of parenthood? That accepting different people as "mom" damages the category, breaking down traditional roles and responsibilities, and implying a level of malleability that is both out of step with biological reality and corrosive to society. If so, any individual could be quite pro-social while the recognition of the institution of parenthood as flexible could be dangerous.

I think you see something similar claimed by the more tepid trans-skeptical (which I would probably group myself with) - sure, there are some people that genuinely have gender dysphoria, were always going to have gender dysphoria, and it would be best to do what we can to make those people comfortable, but enthusiastically embracing them as "real women" and telling everyone that gender is malleable is going to lead to a hell of a lot more mental illness and cause way more damage if we make a big deal out of it. Likewise, any individual may be in a difficult position where they're just trying to do the right thing for the kids, and they may deserve for everyone to just call them "mom" for the sake of everyone involved, but we shouldn't start acting like this is as just and good and just as valid of a relationship as a traditional two-parent household.

I agree there should be a lot more stigma associated with breaking up households. Kids deserve to have both parents present.

But in some situations (eg remarry after death) I could totally see a loving stepmom fill the role. It wouldn’t be untoward for her stepkids to give her a Mother’s Day card instance.

At the same time, she isn’t the actual mother.