site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 12, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

40
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Status is such a nebulous thing that I worry about this a lot less than you.

Status doesn't have to be moneymaking, or having the best jobs. In fact, these are poor stand ins for the real status maker: what other people think of you. Being a well respected person among a group of well respected people is status, and you don't need a specific job or achievement to do that. Men can achieve status and reputation through social skills, sports achievements, comedy, etc.

Men can achieve status and reputation through social skills, sports achievements, comedy, etc.

Absolutely, but crucially, these are low percentage options. They are handsomely rewarded at the highest levels, but for every pro athlete, actor or comedian there are thousands who didn't make it. Simply put, these sorts of jobs cannot be the solution to a population-level problem. There just aren't enough of them.

A more realistic method is crime, and this is the prime driver of violence cycles in dysfunctional communities. The gangs provide a hierarchy to rise within, there's danger and money and drugs. And because of all that, there's sexual access as well. My pet theory is that this explains the crime level in our more dangerous areas. When it becomes the easiest way to gain protection, brotherhood, status and pussy, what red-blooded teenager wouldn't join a gang? I did. I just had the caution and foresight to make sure it was the toughest gang in the world.