site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 12, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

40
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

What proof is there that MV is supportive of illegal immigrants?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/florida-flies-migrants-to-sanctuary-destination-of-marthas-vineyard

Martha’s Vineyard has styled itself as a “sanctuary destination” that welcomes migrants — a position it took early in former President Donald Trump’s administration.

From back in 2017:

https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2017/04/06/immigration-issue-stirs-heartfelt-response-island

I assume this is sufficient proof.

So where's the evidence of them screaming?

Perhaps 'heated discussion' is the more accurate way to put it.

The apparent official response is they can't stay and will be transported away... which seems to bely the idea of providing a 'sanctuary.'

https://twitter.com/NYCHomoCon/status/1570456702390267905#m

Meanwhile, the residents themselves seem rather torn over the situation, with the ones most angry about Desantis' action turning out to be the least likely to support housing the migrants locally.

https://twitter.com/DoctorTurtleboy/status/1570571488956395521

Which is pretty damned classic NIMBYism if you remove the specific context.

Meanwhile, many southern towns are getting twice this many migrants on something like a daily basis and it causes minimal national headlines for some reason.


Absent any of the above, the 'virtue signalling' part arises from a town declaring itself a sanctuary city whilst, apparently, lacking the infrastructure to actually handle people seeking sanctuary.

As in, signalling support for a cause whilst not actually acting in support nor putting any skin in the game, but only so they can claim to be virtuous.

My bet is they will continue to claim support for illegal immigrants whilst making zero changes to accept such immigrants, and in fact taking measures to prevent this particular type of shenanigans.

And in such case I won't mind seeing red tribe politicians calling their bluff and helping them put their money (or, alternatively, their foot) where their mouth is.

Thanks for the links. You're certainly correct that Martha's Vineyard appears to have pledged itself to not obeying federal immigration laws. I don't like this kind of political action, but I can't deny that MV wasn't walking the walk.