site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 24, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Beauty in the built environment is a symbolic way of saying that this culture and this place is worth making beautiful. I think you can see this with religion the most clearly. In the early days of religion, you had big, bold beautiful cathedrals, chalices and bowls made of precious metals and jewels, ornate vestments, and so on. And it was a reflection of the way (at the time Catholic) Christianity saw itself and the world. God was worthy of the absolute best. In modern times, Christian churches are often placed in strip malls or reclaimed businesses, built to be functional but not much else. And I think it’s leading to at least some of the decline in religious interest. God has been reduced to something unworthy, something that only deserves the cheapest of materials, the most banal of music and to be squeezed in next to the Orange Julius and Xist Fitness and a cheap cafeteria.

One would assume there is a correlation between cathedrals and church growth while strip mall churches meet with failure, when the correlation is very much negative. The denominations that hold and maintain the tall steeple churches tend to be the ones living off of trust funds rather than congregants while the "is the new building a cannabis farm or a church?" Denominations are the ones in a consistent growth cycle (before imploding due to governance issues so mine picks up the pieces.)

If you want to you can compare the American methodists with the non-denominational Baptists and see that story play out. I'm certain that the lack of beauty does have some play in it, but it is far below a lot of other driving forces.