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So earlier this week I tried to have a discussion about the common complaint here that modern, western culture is deficient and should be overthrown because it is extremely bad at creating beauty. I tried to argue that this particular judgement depends on aesthetic preferences that aren't as universal as its makers seem to think and gave a particular example of one of my own preferences (that is shared by many I know IRL) that actually judges it as exceptionally good.
The response was pretty shocking. There are some topics here that I know will provoke a lot of heat---immigration, racial identity, trans issues, etc. I never suspected this to also be one of them. The sheer amount of anger in the replies and the subsequent to emotional arguments and strawmanning was crazy--I really did not know it was this controversial. On second thought however, this aesthetic judgement really is the core objection a lot of the far right has towards the modern world and a lot of their policy suggestions to fix it that otherwise seem bizarre to me make a lot more sense when viewed as based on their particular aesthetic preferences. Therefore, questioning these preferences is really questioning the foundation of their political identity, much more than talking about immigration might be.
I'm therefore interested in polling this forum on the issue. I think it helps with the strawmanning to be very precise and try to clarify it into a dilemma. Pretend god offered you a trade: all future advances in science and math that aren't directly useful for technological advancement will stop. In exchange, the supposed squalor of the modern, western physical environment will be fixed---think replacing all of suburbia with stuff that looks as nice as your favorite ones of these. Would you take the trade? [Edit: maybe a better option would be changing all brutalist buildings to things that are as nice as cathedrals?] Now I know that "directly useful for technological advancement" is a very fuzzy, but please try to answer the question in its spirit---we're trading away only the aesthetic value of these advances, not their material and practical effects.
I would also be very interested in the correlation between the answer to this question and people's political views. I personally would be strongly against the trade (the same as most people I know IRL) and I'm a pretty standard American liberal.
(EDIT: on second thought this was a very unclear post missing too much context. See here for clarification---hopefully this helps to anyone still looking at this).
I think it’s a false dilemma only because a culture that doesn’t see itself as worth making beautiful is one that won’t exit for long.
Beauty in the built environment is a symbolic way of saying that this culture and this place is worth making beautiful. I think you can see this with religion the most clearly. In the early days of religion, you had big, bold beautiful cathedrals, chalices and bowls made of precious metals and jewels, ornate vestments, and so on. And it was a reflection of the way (at the time Catholic) Christianity saw itself and the world. God was worthy of the absolute best. In modern times, Christian churches are often placed in strip malls or reclaimed businesses, built to be functional but not much else. And I think it’s leading to at least some of the decline in religious interest. God has been reduced to something unworthy, something that only deserves the cheapest of materials, the most banal of music and to be squeezed in next to the Orange Julius and Xist Fitness and a cheap cafeteria.
The same can be seen in our art in general. We simply no longer take ourselves seriously. We don’t see our culture in a way that makes it worth taking seriously. I’m personally a fan of the older Star Trek, and to me the entire thing has devolved into the same self-parody that plagues much of movie and TV making. No gravitas, no sense that anything is at stake, no big ideas. Fuck putting in effort, or making it seem like anything matters. Instead, make it a giant spectacle. Turn Spock into a cursing gen Z emo. Turn it into a musical. Write stories that reference cartoons. Write stories that make no sense on any level. And it’s impossible for anyone to watch that because why would you take something seriously that doesn’t take itself seriously.
Why would someone feel inspired to to something wonderful in a culture that sees itself as unserious and unworthy and banal?
One would assume there is a correlation between cathedrals and church growth while strip mall churches meet with failure, when the correlation is very much negative. The denominations that hold and maintain the tall steeple churches tend to be the ones living off of trust funds rather than congregants while the "is the new building a cannabis farm or a church?" Denominations are the ones in a consistent growth cycle (before imploding due to governance issues so mine picks up the pieces.)
If you want to you can compare the American methodists with the non-denominational Baptists and see that story play out. I'm certain that the lack of beauty does have some play in it, but it is far below a lot of other driving forces.
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