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PaperclipPerfector  9mo ago (text post)   2772 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for July 28, 2023

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I've been playing a lot of modded Skyrim recently and finding lots of instances of objects placed incorrectly causing holes or hidden surfaces to be visible. For those with 3d programming experience, does writing a program to detect and report these seem like a reasonable project as an excuse to learn how to work with 3d graphics for an experienced programmer who is completely unfamiliar with 3d graphics or would this be biting off a bit too much?

Can you write a bit more on why you're playing Skyrim? I'm just genuinely curious. I want to motivate myself to play, and not give up after a week this time.

I'm endlessly drawn to Elder Scrolls games. They're near to what I would call "perfect" games for myself. My biggest complaint is the combat system. In Morrowind and (maybe) Oblivion I don't mind it, because the magic system is so open. You can craft your own spells, launch yourself all across the world map, nothing is restricted. In Skyrim however, the restrictions are there, and I can't give it a pass on the combat system. Not to mention that the quests are notoriously shallow. And that's something, coming from a person who usually doesn't notice such things and consumes most media passively.

At the moment I find it hard to not pick going for another Elden Ring run instead, even though that game is much farther from what I would call "perfect" (personally, although it is probably "perfect" in general).

Unfortunately, I have "gaming OCD" and just can't install any mods, except for bugfix or graphics mods. I want the vanilla experience in games, the way they're "meant" to be played. Not to mention the technical difficulties of installing mods. I've recompiled my kernel and have been an Arch user, but that shit is just too much for me.

To preface this, it sounds like you look for very different things in your games than I do (eg. I could never get into Elden Ring), so I'm not sure this will be much help. That said...

I'm endlessly drawn to Elder Scrolls games. They're near to what I would call "perfect" games for myself.

That's me, between these and (modded) minecraft. I occasionally branch out (eg, Factorio or various RPGs), but I always find myself being drawn back to the TES games or minecraft.

Unfortunately, I have "gaming OCD" and just can't install any mods, except for bugfix or graphics mods. I want the vanilla experience in games, the way they're "meant" to be played.

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that the Creation Kit is included with the games means customization through mods are the way they are "meant" to played. Bethesda provides a curated vanilla experience for those who want it, but have done more than any other developer I can think of in providing and supporting the ability for players to adapt the games to their desired playstyle. The games' modding community has built amazing things on the canvas Bethesda provided. Eg, in Morrowind there was a mod I used that added the ability to raise skeletal minions through a ritual involving manually placing items (bones, candles, etc) in the correct layout in the world rather than simply casting a spell, though you still needed a spell to trigger the ritual once all the preparations were made.

Not to mention the technical difficulties of installing mods. I've recompiled my kernel and have been an Arch user, but that shit is just too much for me.

Allow me to introduce you to Wabbajack, the "I just want to click install" option for playing modded Skyrim, albeit a bit annoying without a premium nexus account since you have to manually initiate the download of each mod/resource. Nexus has a somewhat controversial similar feature in its collections.

In Morrowind and (maybe) Oblivion I don't mind it, because the magic system is so open. You can craft your own spells,

In Morrowind you can create custom spells in-game that combine multiple (IIRC, up to 8?) spell effects from a preset list, varying the magnitude and targeting of the effect. If you wanted to do anything more complex (eg, a Mark and Recall-like pair that allows you to set multiple destinations and choose from them dynamically, or the previously mentioned necromancy ritual) or even just include preset spell effects that they didn't want you to have access to (eg, restore magika), you needed to resort to modding. As the series progressed, Bethesda pushed spell customization out of the game and into mods, a choice that never really bothered me since I was already used to doing things via mods anyway. And modders have done amazing things with spells in all the games.

launch yourself all across the world map,

Still technically possible in Skyrim with mods (eg, using the buffs from the wind element from Phenderix's Elements) and even the base game with glitches, but this is more a technical restriction to avoid game crashes and performance issues than a real gameplay decision. When Morrowind first came out, it was very easy to crash your game by boosting your Acrobatics and Atheletics skills sufficiently high that you could jump across the island and have the game choke trying to load in all the resources as you flew across the world. If you got them high enough, you'd also start to run into compounding errors in the position calculations leading to all kinds of "fun". Oblivion and Skyrim are much more resource intensive, and this drives a lot of performance tradeoffs to manage that (eg, forbidding Levitation so you can assume players won't be positioned to notice that some objects don't have renderable surfaces from all angles).

nothing is restricted.

This is definitely the primary attraction I've had to the series, but I think it is only through modding that you truly get there.

In Skyrim however, the restrictions are there, and I can't give it a pass on the combat system.

I'm not sure what you are looking for in terms of combat, but the modding community has a lot of options for various playstyles. Even vanilla Skyrim I'd rate higher than Morrowind though, as I found the tedium of missing/fizzling constantly at the start of the game extremely annoying. This is related to the primary reason I tend to play Skyrim more than Oblivion or Morrowind these days. I tend to keep all my skills at a similar level so I can swap between them as my mood changes rather than specializing as the game expects. This doesn't play very nice with the earlier games balance or levelling system though.

Not to mention that the quests are notoriously shallow.

Again, mods. There is a questing mod available that won a Writer's Guild award for its script. Another with one of my favorite game trailers of all time. If you are looking for something more akin to Elden Ring and similar games, see VIGILANT and the others in the series or Darkend (less lore friendly). If you are looking for something that explores the weirder aspects of the games' lore (eg, you want that "I can't believe these mods are lore-friendly" feeling), see Trainwiz's series of mods, notably The Wheels of Lull. And I'd probably be lynched if I didn't at least mention Legacy of the Dragonborn.

In short, I love open-world games that I can easily tweak to my liking and change up my playstyle regularly without too much hassle (eg, starting a new character/playthrough), and Skyrim fits that bill very nicely. Its base game isn't all that great by itself, but the modding community surrounding it has lots of options for nearly everyone.

EDIT: Grammar.

even just include preset spell effects that they didn't want you to have access to (eg, restore magika)

There's a game bug that lets you duplicate the effect of "cast spell, get all your magicka back". Drain your own Intelligence to 0 for one second; when it wears off, you have max magicka again. Cheaty, but so is Restore Magicka as a spell.

(eg, forbidding Levitation so you can assume players won't be positioned to notice that some objects don't have renderable surfaces from all angles)

IIRC this was only part of why they did it; another part was so that they didn't have to balance for flight (Morrowind notoriously just let flight break everything).

Even vanilla Skyrim I'd rate higher than Morrowind though, as I found the tedium of missing/fizzling constantly at the start of the game extremely annoying. This is related to the primary reason I tend to play Skyrim more than Oblivion or Morrowind these days. I tend to keep all my skills at a similar level so I can swap between them as my mood changes rather than specializing as the game expects. This doesn't play very nice with the earlier games balance or levelling system though.

Tips on the early-game:

  • Bound Weapons go a long way, especially the axe and longsword (though even the dagger that you start with if you've got a decent Conjuration is decent). The spell is very cheap and easy to cast (and obviously you only generally need to cast it once per battle, which makes it far more efficient than flashier Destruction and Mysticism spells), and the weapons have inbuilt +[Weapon Skill] effects that make you substantially more likely to hit. Masalinie Merian in the Balmora Mages Guild sells all six Bound Weapon spells.
  • Mentor's Ring is quite close to game start (go northeast along the coast from Seyda Neen until you hit a ridgeline, there's a tomb right on the waterline). It's a constant-effect +10 Int +10 Willpower, and Willpower controls your success chance on spellcasting. You'll probably want to buy a probe from Arrille, though, since the trap on the urn with the ring in it can one-shot a starting character (a probe is a handy thing in general, since traps have no difficulty levels; you can disarm any trap with an Apprentice's Probe and a Security skill of 5, even if it might take a few tries).
  • If you are going to use direct attack spells, start small. There's a spell called Righteousness, sold by Ygfa in Pelagiad and a few others, which is Absorb Health 10pts on touch; very reliable, and the time taken to spamcast is less of an issue since it heals you. Casting lots of little spells will also raise your casting skills faster.
  • You might already know this, but don't go into combat without your Fatigue bar at full. Your chance to cast spells and to hit enemies with weapons is strongly dependent on how full your Fatigue bar is. Feel free to run-jump your way through cities (unless you need to do persuasion or commerce; those are fatigue-based as well), but out in the wilderness, let it come back to full or nearly so (pure walking is pretty tedious, but you can alternate running with walking to go a bit faster while keeping your Fatigue up).
  • Level up smarter, not faster. Your attribute increases on levelup get multipliers determined by the skills you increased since your last levelup, and you can't max out the multipliers without increasing your "misc" skills - the ones that don't contribute to levelup. So don't be frustrated by using "misc" skills and levelling up slowly (note also that while Morrowind enemies don't get boosts based on your level, spawn points do check your level when deciding what creature to spawn, so levelling up rapidly and inefficiently can lead to you getting shredded by random kagouti on the road), and do spread out your major and minor skills across the attributes and specialisations (I usually play mage-ish characters, but I still take Light Armour and one weapon skill). I'd definitely advise against making Acrobatics and Athletics anything but "misc" skills, as they train hilariously fast but don't make you better at fighting.

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