This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I think Trump absolutely flip flops to cater to his audience. He did it many times in 2015/2016, and certainly has done since he left office.
One great example is Covid vaccines, which he personally endorsed, encouraged, and took (with a photo op) and was extremely proud of. Then in 2021, he gets booed multiple times at rallies, first for encouraging followers to get vaccinated and then even for saying he got the booster vaccine. And now he barely mentions it again. (I expect he might in the presidential debates v Biden, but not in the primary campaign). He actually was asked about this (iirc by Fox News) recently and he just kind of shrugs and says “well, I don’t even know if they work actually” or something. This for what he considered his greatest or one of his greatest achievements in office.
Trump is a master at telling people what they want to hear. His views on abortion, on religion, on trans issues have all changed as the base has changed. On immigration and trade he’s been consistent for a while, he does have some longstanding political beliefs, but on many other issues he moves with and caters to his audience, part of what makes him a great politician (when it comes to getting elected, at least).
I think Obama’s core political value - and David Samuels does kind of notes this in the linked article - is a generic center-left Euro style hostility to American exceptionalism. I don’t think he’s a radical, or a hardcore third-worldist or anything, and I think he rationally sees that as stupid and performative on the part of wealthy westerners. But he doesn’t believe America is a special place, or a special opportunity, the way that even many radical leftists in the American tradition did. And he thinks that it’s a little stupid, a little plebeian, to engage in that kind of rhetoric. He’s a pure elitist, in a way, but he’s not quite smart enough to be a true intellectual. He’s most similar to the archetypal /r/atheism poster back in the day, or to the annoying kid who always raises his hand in class to lecture the teacher, which is what he apparently was.
He had a quest for power and then wealth, but it wasn’t really to be remembered as a great statesman or to implement a particular political program or even to just have power, it was to be the wise man in the corner of the party surrounded by devoted adherents. That’s genuinely what motivates him, he wants to be an intellectual.
I don't think this is evidence of Trump "flip-flopping" so much as the fact that Omicron is objectively far less lethal than previous strains of Covid and that society seems to have largely moved on from Covid - bringing it up is yesterday's battle.
Exactly. The 5 people left who still care about COVID are also likely fervently blue tribe so it is completely pointless for Trump to try and appeal to them.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link