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CSpitz  8mo ago (text post)   2936 thread views

Married guys of The Motte, where are your wives hanging out and can I join in?

I’m looking to find out where I can meet other women/moms who value rationalist-style discourse, but are more interested in kids, family, community, and home than in Motte discussions these days.

I’m a long time Motte lurker with a deep respect for the tenets of this forum. I crave more of this type of discourse. The issue is, I’m a stay-at-home mom now and I’m choosing to spend my time elsewhere (kids, community-building, garden, etc). Most of my exposure to this community is now through my husband (who forwards me the quality contributions he thinks I’d like), and honestly I’m generally more interested in topics that relate closer to my daily life these days anyway. (e.g. I'm very interested in Culture War stuff, but with more of a focus on "how the heck do I raise my kids in the middle of this Culture War?")

I’m wondering whether I can somehow connect with other moms (maybe wives of Motte members?) who are similarly lurking but who’d enjoy Motte-style discourse a lot more than the kinds of discourse I’ve been finding on more-mainstream kinds of online mommy groups (ugh).

TL;DR Seeking moms who love the rationalist ethos, but are busy doing mom stuff.

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I'm a married mom who hangs out here, and I've lately been enjoying Megan Daum's Unspeakeasy forum. It's expensive, but often feels like The Motte for Her. Of course, the posts aren't quite so long because we have shit to do :D

Neat, thanks for the tip! Less lengthy posts sounds more my speed. :p What in particular do you think you like about it?

It's not anonymous, which means everybody treats each other as human and there's more of a sense of a community. I'd say the overarching mood is anti-woke, but there's no lockstep thinking and any disagreement is done with respect. Also, while there is a good amount of culture war discussion, any topic is welcome and gets decent engagement.

Not sure where you live, but there are also in-person meetups (along with the official Unspeakeasy retreats).

Oh wow, that does sound like a really cool convergence of traits. Not being anonymous never even occurred to me, but that must make a huge difference to the vibe! I’ll definitely have to check this place out. Thank you!

It's fascinating that something like that exists. I love the idea, it just seems crazy that people might pay $150 a year to join a forum without seeing what it's like first.

I'm guessing most new members are referrals from existing members?

I joined at launch (when it was $100) because I was familiar with Megan and really liked her work. The membership roster is definitely journalist-heavy, which implies a network effect.

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This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

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A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

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