This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Fake Outrage for a Fake Crisis
In one of the most annoyingly misguided media crusades in recent memory, the soccer world (read: Reddit, PMC, sports media, and virtue-signaling athletes who are delighted to be out of the Sauronic Eye for once) has fixed its laser gaze on Luis Rubiales, head of the Spanish FA (the top soccer organization in Spain; representing all club and national teams in the country). His crime, for which he is demanded to give up everything he now has and ever had, was a kiss.
After the Spanish National Team won the Women's World Cup last week, a traditional trophy presentation was held. In his jubilation, Rubiales kissed player Jenni Hermoso, just as thousands of soccer personnel have done thousands of times in moments of great triumph. Indeed, in the immediate aftermath, Hermoso laughed it off on camera as a passing awkward moment. In the days following that recording, I assume Hermoso has come to see that one moment of blasé honesty as a crucial tactical mistake (not that it matters; the original video of her has yet to make an appearance in any of the numerous "j'accuse" incendiary articles).
What Hermoso failed to realize in that moment (but has very much seized upon since) is that she had been granted the gift of victimhood. Not just as a woman, not just as a woman at the hand of a man, but as a woman footballer (one of the venerated subclasses, as elaborated upon in one of my past comments) at the hands of T H E P A T R I A R C H Y.
This one meaningless moment flashed overnight into an international dogpile, with consequences as wild as Rubiales' mother enduring a hunger strike. Unfortunately, Rubiales is experiencing firsthand that racism is not the only demand in excess of its supply, and that even a hint of raw meat, especially in the entirely invented space of "women's sports" "inequality," will be devoured, even if it was just shoe leather all along.
My major takeaway from this episode is that Rubiales must be a real prick.
This incident should have been a nothing burger. An apology along the lines of the one he initially gave about getting caught up in the moment should have been the end of it. The fact that seemingly everyone in Spanish football has queued up to stick the knife in Caesar style, and apparently nobody has come to his defence, indicates that this is not a popular man.
I think you're right about the rest of the dynamics here though - it's more social media mob justice. It does seem to have prompted a criminal investigation now though.
Remind me of some cases where "apology along the lines of the one he initially gave about getting caught up in the moment" been the end of it and SJWs were satisfied by just that. Because I can't remember many such cases (unless the person in question is a high-status Leftist of course, the rules are different there).
The fact that you can't remember cases of unremarkable things that didn't cause much of a fuss and weren't a very big story, is not very strong evidence that they don't exist.
Outrageous anecdotes of crazy shit are not just more memorable and more likely to be reported on a lot, they are also preferentially promoted and even created by media agencies and algorithms that base their business models on outrage engagement.
That's why it's dangerous to go off of your intuitions and impressions alone in cases like this.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I guess he's the one to blame for having the team quartered in Palmerston North: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2023/07/football-world-cup-spain-reportedly-abandon-palmerston-north-base-due-to-boredom.html
More options
Context Copy link
the RFEF (spanish football federation) is fully backing him. they even tried to have UEFA (governing body of european football) expel them, kicking out spanish teams from european competitions, in protest of government interference.
That's a fair point, but it's literally just the organisation he's president of that's supporting him. In that sense it looks more like self defence than allies rushing to his defence, if you catch my drift. Meanwhile, the regional presidents of the RFEF have released a statement calling for his resignation. And, as far as I'm aware, none of the Spanish clubs or their named senior officials have backed him.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link