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PaperclipPerfector  9mo ago (text post)   28154 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 11, 2023

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I'm sorry, I don't see how that changes anything. OP was talking about games in general. You made a point about the gaslighting being justified, because a lot of people seem to agree with the guy you linked to. I'm saying that argument would only make sense if he wanted to purge all wokeness from all games, rather than just complaining about how top corporations are pushing it through it's media.

It's not gaslighting if it's true.

I'm saying that argument would only make sense if he wanted to purge all wokeness from all games, rather than just complaining about how top corporations are pushing it through it's media.

The problem I have with this argument is that the OP called multiple popular kids shows "too damned gay". One of those was Peppa Pig, which the linked article literally just says had a lesbian couple with a child who was friends with the titular character. I assume OP is linking the part he finds problematic, but if so, then he finds it to be unacceptable that a kids show literally depicts a gay family. I even asked explicitly and didn't get a response on what exactly he found problematic about that. The other linked articles aren't much better for making his point.

It is true that one can have separate opinions on video games and kids shows. But I have yet to meet anyone who thinks Peppa Pig is LGBT propaganda and can't comprehend the criticism levied against their modding choices who doesn't also think "wokeness" in video games is a problem, period. I don't place much confidence in WhiningCoil breaking this mold. But I leave it to him to at least offer the defense if he cares to do so.

It's not gaslighting if it's true.

How can it simultaneously be true that woke messaging is not a big deal, and that people should not be allowed any option to remove it?

But I have yet to meet anyone who thinks Peppa Pig is LGBT propaganda and can't comprehend the criticism levied against their modding choices who doesn't also think "wokeness" in video games is a problem, period.

I'm having trouble parsing this sentence. You're saying that if he had his way, he'd just turn the tables on the woke, and censor them, including their mods? If not, I'm not sure I see where you're going with this argument.

How can it simultaneously be true that woke messaging is not a big deal, and that people should not be allowed any option to remove it?

I didn't defend the latter, I defended the former.

I'm having trouble parsing this sentence. You're saying that if he had his way, he'd just turn the tables on the woke, and censor them, including their mods? If not, I'm not sure I see where you're going with this argument.

I'm saying I think he'd censor almost anything he could. He might be less tempted in cases where it's up to adults to make a decision, but I'm not confident of that. So when you say

Your argument would make sense if he complained about ANY game EVER catering to the pronouns crowd

I think he genuinely would complain about pronouns and whatnot. But he may just not be playing Starfield, so he hadn't heard of that case.

I didn't defend the latter, I defended the former.

I'm not saying you defended the latter, I just don't understand how you can defend the claim that an expression of a certain view in media is "no big deal" in a context where the removal of this view is itself censored. You might not support the censorship, but it's still there.

I'm saying I think he'd censor almost anything he could. He might be less tempted in cases where it's up to adults to make a decision, but I'm not confident of that.

Well, if you're right about him, then I can see where you're coming from.

I'm not saying you defended the latter, I just don't understand how you can defend the claim that an expression of a certain view in media is "no big deal" in a context where the removal of this view is itself censored.

They're two separate claims, that's why. The inclusion and subsequent exclusion of that view do not concern me in the least. At least in the context of single-player video games. The more zero-sum a thing we're talking about, the more I'd be concerned about it.

Like, even if you discount that episode, there's literally dozens of episodes without anything gay in them at all. I should know, I have two small children and have thus watched dozens of episodes of Peppa Pig. And Paw Patrol, similarly lacking in gay themes. Or Cocomelon. Or basically any of the Finnish kids' shows I've seen.

There is a Canadian series called Chip & Potato where some of the titular pug's neighbors are a pair of male zebras raising adopted twins who feature from time to time, but even there they don't actually draw attention to them being gay in any way that I've seen. If anything kids's shows that I've seen almost conspicuously seem to be treading very carefully with this theme.

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