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I might regret engaging with this but... to me these rules appear targeted towards stopping sexual harassment. Most women consider pressure after she's said "no" harassment, unsolicited dick picks harassment, etc etc. And it really does feel unsafe. Now, some uncomfortable and unwanted communication just comes with the territory of being female in the dating world. I do think redefining (most) of these things as sexual violence is bad as it weakens the definition of sexual violence. But... a lot of these behaviors really are highly upsetting to many women, and the other comments saying this is just "normal dating" have me pretty worried about what these posters think is normal behavior.
Pressuring women for contact or sex when she has said no should not be normal. Unsolicited pictures of gentitalia should not be normal. Continuing to contact a woman after she's said no should not be normal. Lying should not be normal.
I think this is more an attempt to legislate men into treating women like fellow humans than trying to control dating. The way the sexes interact is complex enough that I'm not sure it really can be effectively legislated. Ultimately, I guess I agree that this law would be bad (or at least not have the intended effects), but a culture should also never be in a position where people think legislation is the only way for women to be treated well.
What's wrong with the men these days that people think this is the only way they will behave?
Then women must stop rewarding these behaviors. If you want to actually impose change from on high, your authority has to somehow punish Stacey when she accepts a date with Chad after she turned him down the first time. Just telling men that 'no means never' isn't going to work if they see that guys who get laid are being persistent and guys who aren't persistent don't get laid.
I'm not going to deny that lying, manipulation, and harassing women get men laid. That's been well documented. But if you think that manipulating, lying to, and harassing women is fine as long as it gets you sex, maybe... just maybe... you're the reason Australia is considering this
lawregulation.I'm going to take a step back here: Earlier today, I listened to a podcast on the Free Press, Bari Weiss' site. It was called Are we living through end times?, and was about the signs of social unrest that precede revolution. Our time has many of them. One of the primary signs of impending revolution is “emmiseration of the masses”. One of the things that happens during this emisseration is that people start to see that although their ancestors were able to achieve success playing by the rules, they can't anymore. They come to believe they now have to cheat their way to the top. And indeed, the cheaters win. They win in politics, they win in college admissions, they win at tests, and although the podcast did not address this... they now win in the bedroom too.
But a society cannot function if only cheaters can win. The entire system breaks down. And indeed, our whole sexual system is breaking down. 25% of 40 year olds have never been married, and 6/10 men in their 20s are single. Our birth rate is the lowest it's ever been. The situation is not better for women. I can't find the articles I wanted to cite here, so instead I'll link to an account by a university professor of the confusion she and her students feel when they are told they ought to feel happy about sexual encounters they found exploitative and upsetting. Note that it often takes women years to figure out why they felt used. Do you think Stacy likes it when Chad pushes her boundaries until she has sex with him?
The only winners in today's sexual culture are the small percentage of men who can have dozens of sex partners while an increasing number of men have none at all. We are in the middle of a sexual apocalypse, and we have got to find a way to reverse it.
This bill is an attempt to get men to play by the rules again. There have always been cheaters, but the costs of hurting women were too high for most men when the women they dated were their friends' sisters or people who were going to be in their social circles for years. Now that men can date women none of their friends know, whom they can arrange to never see again, and have a society gaslighting women into thinking casual sex is empowering, men can use underhanded tactics like these to gain an unfair advantage over other men. This is bad for women, it's bad for honest men, it's bad for men who resort to them to compete, and it's really really bad for society. When liars and manipulators win, it corrodes our culture's soul.
We can't function like this. This
lawregulation isn't the answer. Other posters are right that the worst offenders will find ways to slip through. This law is a bandaid slapped on a hemorrhaging amputated arm. Our sex culture needs a deeper culture change in order to work for most people again, but we have to find a way to fix this! Our whole future is riding on it.Nice way to pass the buck there, blaming this on "society" rather than "feminist media".
This is an extreme "mistakes were made" non-apology.
Sure, it's not incorrect to say that "society" sends young women a lot of messages which glamorise casual sex - but which components of "society" are sending these messages, exactly? Presumably young women aren't going down to their local mosque, church, or synagogue to hear preachers gush about the satisfaction of being a bad bitch who fucks a dude then leaves him on read.
To fix a problem, you have to identify its source, and you have to do it with more precision than pinpointing it to "society".
I didn't think it was a literal apology. A "non-apology apology" presents itself as though the speaker is trying to make amends for wrongdoing, but if read closely, the speaker is very careful to avoid admitting guilt or accepting responsibility for wrongdoing (hence the weasel phrase "mistakes were made").
I thought it was a similar kind of evasiveness on /u/CanIHaveASong's part to attribute young women coming to believe that casual sex is empowering as a result of the messages sent by "society", as opposed to any more specific agent or group contained therein.
I was not evasive. I meant what I said about it being society. Perhaps I could have been more specific and said, "mainstream society". It's not just feminist sources pushing this culture: It's songs, it's movies, it's TV shows. It's in the assumptions college professors have for their students and students have for eachother. It's most dates (even the ones my 60 year old aunt went on!). Do you think most men who expect women to sleep with them on the first date expect this because they are feminists? No! It's become society's norm. It's not specifically feminism, even if feminism is currently one of its champions. Perhaps it is the progressive-hedonistic-utopian memeplex that's dominant in the voices that get promoted by mainstream society these days? But there's the word I used: Society. Simply saying society is good enough for me.
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