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People who constantly milk past history of antisemitism or past anti black racism are promoting racism today and authoritarianism. I think it would be much better if people instead of doing this were silent instead and that such milking of past grievances in one sided manner was dealt with more intolerance and there was a taboo against it.
Like people realizing this fact and either outright censoring some of this when is overdone or be condemning and unpleasant to those doing it.
So no, it isn't legitimate and good to be talking about the so called antisemitism of Tito's Yugoslavia. I don't care about it but I do care about you and others like you bringing it up.
Although in different contexts among historical departments doing an even handed history that doesn't just soapbox about antisemitism but is willing to mention negaively say Jewish mistreatment of non Jews too, but also talk about Jews being mistreated, I don't see something wrong with that.
There is certainly a norm being promoted about being against bringing up Jewish participation in communism or any Jewish wrongdoing. Well if we shouldn't talk about Jews wronging others we should also talk less about others wronging Jews in the past. These milking of past grievances and promotion of victimhood ensures racism being kept alive. Especially in combo with the concept that some groups have always been victims and others always be victimizers.
The people who are extremely intolerant to any negativity towards Jews and call it conspiracy theory, while legitimize much greater negativity towards non Jews, are just racist extremists acting based on prejudice and trying to give it a fig leaf of legitimacy. The end point of what they promote is that indeed Jews are superior and should be treated better and others worse.
So my view is what we need is to not care that much about such events but to care about the faction that wants to talk about it and punish them for being malicious racists who are acting in bad faith and trying to use their one sided approach of history as a weapon.
Unironically one way to avoid conflict is to actually bring up the past less. Unless that is you bring it up to correct the onesided approach of those who are milking the past maliciously today which isn't antisemites today who milk the past against their outgroup in positions of influence.
To respect the sensitivity of people who want less focus on any supposed wrongdoing done by say Jews, we should also talk less about supposed past antisemitism.
Unless the goal is indeed to promote a narrative of oppressed groups that should be protected and we need to be racist in their favor and against groups like european christian men. Which it is. Hence making such malicious exploration of history taboo is what I recommend. Like fighting about the details, it is better to just not tolerate people who try to use history in such manner to begin with.
I certainly don't think we need the opposite milking of history either as the pervasive force but a detente where everyone understands that at least most groups, and certainly Jews included have a more complex history than pure victimizers nor victims and while we aknowledge complexities of history we don't abuse it in such manner would be a much a superior norm. A detente rather than one group of hateful grievance carriers dishing out as much as they want while demanding they don't get any of the same currency back. And throwing terms like nazi and antisemitism to cover up their own racism and to slander any dissent to their racist extremism.
I would recommend for the right and others who ought to oppose this to fire activists in positions of influence promoting this milking of the past to shit on the present outgroup and that it would be a good thing and a move towards a less racist and fanatical society if we were intolerant to those malicious actors of this mentality. Rules like boo outgroup or regulations against racism should not make exceptions for those promoting a jewish grievance against european societies either.
BTW, it does no good for the relationship between Jews and non Jews to constantly talk about ethnic conflict between Jews and non Jews. Moving past it and promoting that different groups must respect each other does far better than promoting to one the idea that they will always be victimized by the other, and to the other either the acceptance of this ideal and they deserve to be mistreated as "revenge" and because of their own bad nature, or to see Jews as a group that will always see them as oppressors and therefore might mistreat them.
Should TheMotte add a rule against advancing any form of slave morality in general?
Calling it slave morality misdiagnoses the problem.
It is more racism for Jews by either Jewish supremacists who are Jewish racists, or non Jews who are racist supremacists for a foreign ethnic group. And same in general for the progressive stack.
These people with this mentality are not pushovers. Oikophobia relies on pushovers as well to take root, but the faction on the offense are more direct racists, rather than those who are impotent to oppose them. It is an alliance of different extreme tribalists than just a pathology of everyone being a pushover.
And such behavior of enforcing consensus that the Jewish outgroup is always at fault and Jews always have it worse and admitting no fault, and how any dissent is antisemitism which should be shut down is behavior that is utterly ridiculous and rule violating and inconsistent with any serious and respectable way of exploring history, or ethnic issues. Just onesided racist propaganda. So is more sneaky ways of doing this like just always talking about jewish victimhood.
This authoritarian racist propaganda should not be tolerated anywhere, including in universities, media, etc. by just enforcing what current rules ought to be or were, but not the hidden rules that are about the progressive stack and respecting the tribalism of Jewish supremacists. Is it possible to shut it down, but have some sensitivity to not censor the rare case that Jewish victimhood is brought up if there isn't an agenda to overly promote it? Yes it is possible indeed to do that and distinguish the weaponization of history, with the even handed exploration of it.
I have a problem with the slave morality concept since those who bring it up seem to use it to pathologize both being a pushover and moderation. I favor groups having self respect, and standing up for themselves against malicious racists. I don't want them to have a mentality that everything is ok and permitted and that they should abuse others.
There is a sweet spot between pushover, ultranationalist oppressor and it does involve a healthy level of intolerance towards foreign racist supremacists and the locals who align with them. That sweet spot is what I favor, of not tolerating this bullshit, but also not doing it to others neither.
The reality is that if western civilization and countries, when the Frankfurt school, ADL, weathermen underground and third world marxist nationalists were pushing their extremism decades ago, shut these groups down and didn't let them march in institutions, the world would be in a saner and more moderate place today. Same for other groups which shared this extremism and authoritarianism but were somewhat more sneaky about it like the neocons.
And make no mistake, these groups did shut down opposition.
Now things are in a worse spot, but you still got to not tolerate such viewpoint if you have any rules of conduct and standards. Its not that we don't have rules in institutions but its that evenhanded application of rules has been eroded over being at this point even overt supremacist in the progressive stack manner. And there are also those who are aligning with its agenda but aren't going to admit this even though it can be surmised by their behavior.
So do we have a general problem of quokas? Not exactly. Racist supremacists for progressive stack identities are racists who promote tolerance for their own racism and in bad faith promote that their outgroup should be pushovers and have no tribalism. These people are not really quokas but are authoritarians.
This isn't done in good faith against tribalism since they promote it for their ingroup and oppose any right wing criticism of excessive tribalism. Moreover, there is a direct connection between becoming a pushover and eventually becoming a racist supremacist for a foreign tribe and not just an enabler. Since the vacuum of your own lack of tribalism can be filled by identifying with the tribalism of another group where tribalism without limit is tolerated and where you can virtue signal.
A society that was dominated by "slave morality" promoted towards everyone would look quite different. I think a mutuality of restraint is part of international justice but again restraint does not mean tolerating everything. Restraint is different than concern trolling the victimized party to be pushovers or else they are dishonestly slandered by the actual racist supremacists as nazi antisemites, who just coincidentally never show the same intolerance both in terms of unpleasantness, hostility and also in terms of outright banning and restricting the most pervasive type of progressive supremacists who actually do pass hate speech laws and manage to get governments promote their narratives.
Of which Jewish supremacists are obviously part of promoting the same ideal of their group doing nothing wrong and western civilization oppressing them among others. If anything, they seem to be the most authoritarian racists and the issue where their supremacist ideology is enforced most viciously and ruthlessly.
Governments abandoning ridiculously one sided definitions of antisemitism and outright condemning the weaponization of history to portray Christians as permanent oppressors of Jews or anyone, would be a move forward. Same with the narrative of europeans as oppressors, or even of western civilization as oppressive. As well as condemning one sided depictions of the past and promoting in influence figures like Helen Andrews and more who have promoted truth and nuance and this as the official approach.
The lobbies which made these racist blood libel laws reality should not be allowed to continue to have influence and organizations can easily be banned. Indeed, like a police department raided ADL offices for a criminal investigation in the 1990s, banning political commissar state within a state powerful totalitarian racist supremacist organizations while investigating them for crimes like extortion, spying and more, is definitely feasible.
In Poland they criminalized blaming the Poles for the holocaust, which is part of the reason the Polish succeed in defending themselves from this to some extend. Prohibition which does not necessarily require outright criminalization on goverment level of this one sided promotion of guilt on continuous nations, religions, based on one sided propaganda ought to be the end point. People who are being racist pricks against groups today by weaponizing history promoting them as permanent past, present and future oppressors should be more afraid of engaging in that behavior, than their victims of resisting it.
As we can see you can incentivize and keep out ideologies without outright banning them. But it would be less extreme for countries to restrict the more dominant type of hate speech that shits on their people that laws in line of this ideology. Like this ideology rose in influence it can decline. And then I would have less supremacists to be complaining about since there will be less people holding that ideology once it is repressed instead of promoted. Which is fine my me.
It really is especially insulting to see people in other occasions be intolerant to this type of behavior but either engage in it themselves when it comes to the Jews, or tolerate it as uniquely defensible. It isn't and the way forward is to not tolerate it anywhere.
At the heart of the impotence and extremism lies the same fallacy about how we should defend this kind of extremism because the radical right oppose it, which could be used to justify, and has been used to justify all type of far left extremism. What is wrong about racist supremacists is in fact imposing on other groups a violation of their rights. Its not in fact extreme to oppose this being done to you.
So it is both disappointing and illuminating that we are dealing with people who we shouldn't take as credible just because they might have more correct takes on other issues, when they show this extremist prejudice in favor of the Jews and against Christians, Europeans and other non Jewish groups. It isn't really that complicated, don't tolerate this movement, which is good while behaving with standards of behavior that do in fact differ from the supremacists which you don't tolerate and criticize. Remember that being too much of a pushover towards them is not being sufficiently different and is letting them impose their evil on the world.
If I were to quantify it, I would say that enforcing an ultranationalist ideology with worldwide ambitions is evil. It makes sense for nations to have some bias in favor of themselves in their own borders. Focusing more on your own history is part of this. While focusing on your history is one thing, even there some restraint on how one sided you present history and the world is good. Some evenhandedness. But this should count 100 times over if you are trying to promote a vision of history to a different ethnic group. That we reached the point where ridiculous Jewish supremacist racist propaganda is being adopted by different non Jewish countries is both a tragedy and a farce.
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