This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Just got back from month long vacation # 3 this year, perspective fully changed: Working for money is fucking stupid. Wow, is it stupid.
I've met dozens of people who travel full time from property and investment income from their grandparents; and I am probably a couple years from fully supporting myself purely from passive income (though I'll probably keep working just to get the number higher; maybe pile up some burnable cash to buy more investment property during the next crash).
The switch was sudden and totally unrelated to anything specific I had done; it is just a result of two generations of skin flint behavior and interest rates. If your family line can get together mid six figures of money in investments and assets and sit on it for 1.5 generations without anyone buying penis compensation trucks or boats or developing a gambling addiction or fentanyl addition; you can just be fucking set. (Said in the tone of a joke, but actually a big ask according to the facts.)
The people talking about class war are 100% right; I can say that for a fact now that I've experienced it from both ends. It's really nice to be on the winning side for once. I just watch the money I float in my checking accounts go up 70k every couple months and most of it goes into investments that will only be dinged if the government of the USA collapses; recission proof and inflation proof and 98% risk free. It is so fucking easy to live solely off the sweat of other peoples brows; no wonder these dudes who were born into it start thinking they can't possibly fail.
All this to say: What the fuck do we do about the fact that owning shit and renting shit is just flat out better in every way than doing shit or making shit?
It's easier, it's safer, it's more sustainable over the course of your life, and you can pass it down to your kids locked away in trust so even the frailest son can't fuck it up.
I know that my solution (radical wealth redistribution, red-black shit at large, etc and so forth) isn't popular here; but even conservatives have got to recognize there is a problem.
How do you solve it without the revolution? Is that question even coherent?
Income inequality goes up over time when there's not a major economic downturn or war. The U.S. has now gone a (nearly unprecedented in history) 75 years without either of those things happening. As you point out, all that's needed to be rich is to invest your money and not be a fuckup for 1.5 generations and let compound returns do the rest.
How to solve it without a revolution? Bring back the business cycle.
We haven't had a recession in 15 fucking years. And interest rates were kept artificially low for 14 of those years. With no substantial downturns, anyone with leveraged investments cashed in. TQQQ (the triple-levered NASDAQ fund) is up nearly 100x since inception in 2010. Speculators won out big time. To prevent inequality from growing too high, we need to flush speculators regularly. People who make bad bets need to lose badly.
High interest rates for a long period of time (a decade at least) would flush the speculators and lower income inequality to tolerable levels. Sadly, I don't think it's possible with the governments debt being what it is.
Income inequality hasn't been increasing once you account for taxes and transfers. https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2021/04/inequality-mirage.html?m=1
Thanks. That's a great pushback to the standard narrative and I think it's largely true. My guess is that it this would not apply if we look at wealth inequality.
As I've brought up before on this forum, people are often confused about inequality due to the fixation on income. The top 1% of income changes every year due to windfalls. I believe that something like 7% of earners will be in the top 1% in one year during their life. Meanwhile, an heiress with a $75 million net worth might never appear in the top 1% by income since it's all in tax-sheltered investments. The heiress is rich. The plumber who sells his practice and makes $600,000 at the end of his career is not.
The rise in wealth inequality is due to low financial volatility and low interest rates.
Income inequality I'm not sure about, or it might not even exist net transfers.
Here's more on the problems with how we think about inequality. https://www.themoneyillusion.com/income-and-wealth-inequality-data-nonsense-on-stilts/
How does this relate to the discussion at hand specifically? Not a criticism, just want to move the discussion forward for people who are reading along.
I'm just making a more general point that a lot of the arguments that say that income inequality is really high are wrong.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link