naraburns nihil supernum
7mo ago
(text post)
29944 thread views
Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
You didn't address the second part -- and I'm not too sure about any babies being incinerated either, the only reason to think that that's what the Twitter pictures showed is some level of trust in the people sharing them. Which I lack.
Fudging the extent of the mistruth is no different to fudging the extent of the atrocity.
If no women, children, or toddlers (which is exactly what the guy said) have been beheaded, what am I fudging? That's a straight up lie. Plenty of people were/are talking about the beheaded babies (includinging Joe Goddamn Biden), so if you want to be charitable and suggest that they are just misinformed that's fine -- but I think that at least some of them were adding that exaggeration (of the original lie) deliberately. (because they work for IDF SIGINT)
You're fudging which lie he told. It's the difference between "Fauci said the vaccines would prevent transmission" and "Fauci said the vaccines would cure erectile dysfunction". Both statements are untrue, but he only said one of them.
If you want to criticize Biden for his statements, go ahead - but he's not the same guy as the soldier.
Well there are lots of lies to choose from -- Biden clearly lied about seeing the photos -- surely if the photos existed he would have gone to lengths to procure them, since being caught lying is pretty embarrassing for the President.
But the IDF guy (based on current evidence) was also lying about seeing beheaded women and children -- since so far there is no evidence that this happened at all.
And whichever people spread the '40 beheaded babies' initially were also lying, pretty clearly -- so which of these lies are you saying I shouldn't be criticizing?
since being caught lying is pretty embarrassing for the President.
Lol.
which of these lies are you saying I shouldn't be criticizing?
The ones that were not said by the people you accuse of them.
E.g. upthread @coffee_enjoyer said "an IDF spokesman does not say "40 decapitated babies" by accident." The clear implication of this is that an IDF spokesman said "40 decapitated babies". But this is not true.
It's this sort of lazy exaggeration that I am objecting to.
Well object away -- I don't think that particular item started spreading by itself, but if we want to stick to non-speculative objections I object to the fact that IDF-dude said that he was just back from seeing beheaded women, toddlers and babies (syntax unclear, but at least one of each, I would interpret his words as 2+ in some of the categories) -- which at this point is a total lie. Also Bibi's spokeswoman who repeated much the same thing, which he should probably be take responsibility for (unless she's gone rogue or something). And Biden ofc -- I don't think "I'm a moron who just repeats whatever people tell me with added embellishment" is a good excuse here.
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
You didn't address the second part -- and I'm not too sure about any babies being incinerated either, the only reason to think that that's what the Twitter pictures showed is some level of trust in the people sharing them. Which I lack.
If no women, children, or toddlers (which is exactly what the guy said) have been beheaded, what am I fudging? That's a straight up lie. Plenty of people were/are talking about the beheaded babies (includinging Joe Goddamn Biden), so if you want to be charitable and suggest that they are just misinformed that's fine -- but I think that at least some of them were adding that exaggeration (of the original lie) deliberately. (because they work for IDF SIGINT)
You're fudging which lie he told. It's the difference between "Fauci said the vaccines would prevent transmission" and "Fauci said the vaccines would cure erectile dysfunction". Both statements are untrue, but he only said one of them.
If you want to criticize Biden for his statements, go ahead - but he's not the same guy as the soldier.
Well there are lots of lies to choose from -- Biden clearly lied about seeing the photos -- surely if the photos existed he would have gone to lengths to procure them, since being caught lying is pretty embarrassing for the President.
But the IDF guy (based on current evidence) was also lying about seeing beheaded women and children -- since so far there is no evidence that this happened at all.
And whichever people spread the '40 beheaded babies' initially were also lying, pretty clearly -- so which of these lies are you saying I shouldn't be criticizing?
Lol.
The ones that were not said by the people you accuse of them.
E.g. upthread @coffee_enjoyer said "an IDF spokesman does not say "40 decapitated babies" by accident." The clear implication of this is that an IDF spokesman said "40 decapitated babies". But this is not true.
It's this sort of lazy exaggeration that I am objecting to.
Well object away -- I don't think that particular item started spreading by itself, but if we want to stick to non-speculative objections I object to the fact that IDF-dude said that he was just back from seeing beheaded women, toddlers and babies (syntax unclear, but at least one of each, I would interpret his words as 2+ in some of the categories) -- which at this point is a total lie. Also Bibi's spokeswoman who repeated much the same thing, which he should probably be take responsibility for (unless she's gone rogue or something). And Biden ofc -- I don't think "I'm a moron who just repeats whatever people tell me with added embellishment" is a good excuse here.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link