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Notes -
So I was talking with a leftist friend recently about race-swapping in movies, as well as the general topic of racism, and we clashed on a bunch of things. I'm not sure how well I did, and I'm worried I capitulated too much - I usually take more moderate stances when speaking with leftists IRL than I do online, since I'm usually trying to persuade and shift them towards a point of view which is more critical to wokeness and the usual mainstream narrative.
If you go "Your entire worldview and perception is wrong, here's the evidence" from the outset all you're going to have is an opponent that won't listen to you. It's a fine line you have to tread and I'm still finding my feet as to how to navigate real-time debate. He did capitulate to quite a good portion of my points too (or at least seemed to, from my perspective), but again it's hard to know how hard to push your ideas. There's also the fact that they've got a lot of "common wisdom" on their side which is a big boon in conversations because they can simply make statements and disproving big claims in real-time communication can't be effectively done, as opposed to online where you can take the time to organise things and fully make your case against certain common preconceptions.
What are your methods of debating with people in the real world, and how do you know how hard to press your point?
It would help if I knew from your post what you mean by leftists and what your respective capitulations were. Sorry but since the move it seems a lot more common to see huddle-up posts against a "leftist" outgroup without clear definition of what that even means.
One thing I do when talking, for example, to someone with an intractable view--say, against Rings of Power, two episodes of which at leat I watched and enjoyed--is ask them if they themselves have actually watched it or if they are reacting against internet outrage. If they have, then a discussion can begin. If not, what's the point of even talking abiut it?
It means he falls on the political left, which is associated with a constellation of broadly predictable beliefs (for example: he's invested in race politics in the direction you'd expect, believing that racism is widespread and omnipresent and that there was a historical injustice perpetrated by whites that needs to be corrected for and which still needs to dictate our behaviour in the present). And I don't even mean this to be derogatory, it's just a shorthand so people here can generally understand his positions (and by extension mine) without needing much explaining.
Though they are definitely my out-group, "leftist" here isn't exactly meant to be an epithet, it's a label I've seen him repeatedly apply to himself. I'm not using it to mean "Bad People Who Believe Bad Things".
Fair enough. I always considered myself left-wing, until around the second Obama era. But I won't go too CW here.
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