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Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

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How does that work? “We can’t accept one true claim before you withdraw another claim that sounds low-status right-wing”?

I understand OP's point to be that legal restrictions on Muslims would be seen as objectionable by those people because they would consider is unjust, not as low status. Opposing invidious discrimination against despised minority groups is, after all, a pretty common sentiment among the people in question.

Then the fairness of that policy should be debated separately, not abandoned as a preemptive concession before they agree that the truth is in fact the truth on some other point("get on board with the project"). The "rhetoric" is the problem, you see, not the fact that it's wrong. His use of “linked to” and “right-wing shibboleths” strongly suggest a status/ideological purity motive. He doesn’t want to be “linked to” “right-wing shibboleths”. I mean, who are we kidding here? If even I feel the need to avoid giving off low-status right wing vibes, they assuredly experience a much stronger pull.

OP did not say that they don't want to be linked to right-wing shibboleths. Rather, OP said that potential allies of the project are not going to "get on board" if it is framed in a way which is offensive to their core beliefs, and is instead framed in a way (helping people escape a place where they are subjected to an oppressive ideology) that is instead consistent with those values.

Your suggested strategy (debating the fairness of "hatred and legal restrictions on Muslims") amounts to a suggestion that the way to achieve the goal is to get people to change their basic principles. That is a fool's game, especially when the principles in question (freedom of religion and nondiscrimination) are very much mainstream.

With an attitude like that, societies could never change and correct their mistakes, comrade. Anyway, I’m suspicious of the strategic advice coming from political opponents. Let's just debate the ideas and let me worry about what people will accept.

No one said that has to be the only strategy. There can be short-term and long-term strategies (and if you mean that society should correct its "mistakes" of valuing freedom of religion and freedom from insidious discrimination, that is long-term indeed).

Finally, I don't know what you hope to gain by addressing me as "comrade."

It's just a joke based on the fact that you defended a conservative position while our overall alignments (on the progressive axis) are the opposite, I meant no insult, I did not mean to imply that you are a communist. My true objection, of course, is not that I am a revolutionary who wants to change the core values of the people in an afternoon, but that such consequentialist considerations ("what people will accept") should not intrude upon our search for the truth("let's just debate the ideas").

I actually don't think I was defending a conservative position at all. I, and I believe OP, was commenting on how to effectively pursue political goals. That has nothing to do with right or left; understanding what motivates your opponents is sound strategy regardless of your political orientation.

I think you would recognize it as conservative if it was applied to trans issues. Or perhaps slavery. As to the core values of the people on that particular point, 41 percent of democrats (versus 46 against) supported the muslim ban (source).

I told you what I think motivates progressives here: primarily status concerns and ideological gate-keeping ( as in, their ideology does not allow them to leave the flock on just one issue, all “enemy ideas” are “linked” ). Although the ‘correct-orthodox’ beliefs are justified further down, as you say, by their understanding of fairness.

I think you would recognize it as conservative if it was applied to trans issues

I don’t understand. An effective strategy is an effective strategy, regardless of whether the goal is conservative or liberal or something else.

41 percent of democrats (versus 46 against) supported the muslim ban (source).

Except, it wasn't a Muslim ban. It was a ban (actually, a partial ban) on a handful of countries associated with terrorism.

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