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Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

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Going back to the original question "what do we know of their morality"

The ability of a state to wage war doesn't necessarily say much about the morality of the people within it.

America's war capabilities are highly decoupled from the internal morality. Empires have a point tip of the spear.

America has a commerce oriented set of ethics and morality. We have ideas about fairness and trading.

Sure, so what makes you say the Bronze Age collapsers were soft?

Because it was an option for them, and people tend to take that option when it is available. Even when it might mean the long term collapse of their civilizations. The Romans and Mongolians were both well aware of this phenomenon and took steps to address it.

A civilization can be soft and still be willing to step on people beneath them. It doesn't take balls to park a gunboat in a foreign port when you can blast them out of the water, and they have nothing to retaliate against you. The Vikings mostly raided villages and Monasteries, not hard targets. The European trading empires had gunpowder and armor against sticks and stones. Rome's armies were mostly composed of non-Italians in the late stages of the Empire.

The original question is difficult to answer, even for civilizations we know a lot about. For example, what do we know of the morality of an American? The very pertinent thing to ask back is "which Americans"? Where do they live? How wealthy are they? How do they vote? What religion do they follow? Are they a military family? Etc, etc.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is that in a civilization with "hard" people I generally think of everyone having to be hard. A civilization with "soft" people doesn't mean there are no hard people within it. It just means that soft people can exist within it. Pastoral farmers and hunter gatherers don't really have the option of an easy life of luxury. They work for food, men must fight for territory with other tribes, women are subject to rape and kidnapping, and kids need to be valuable contributing members at a very young age.


I'm curious what people like Bronze Age Pervert say about the bronze age. Are you familiar with their work at all?