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I just heard what I think is a terrible atrocity (granted on the much milder-end of terrible atrocities) that no one seems to know or care about. Apparently Maryland requires that if you have been diagnosed with sleep apnea:
Failure to do this will result in your driver's license being revoked.
This really makes my blood boil. I found out about this because my friend in Maryland is one such person affected by this, with her extremely mild case of sleep apnea (that probably 75% of Americans actually have). She didn't bother with or really need the CPAP, but now, the DMV found out, and is threatening to revoke her license, so she has no choice. Hell, I'm a person who's been diagnosed with very mild sleep apnea, but I chose to not use the CPAP machine, because I couldn't stand having an intrusive device strapped onto my face with tubes running on my bed, pushing air down my throat all night every night. Provided I didn't sleep on my back, I was completely fine, and I didn't need to use the device at all. Since then, I've lost weight, and I don't have sleep apnea anymore, or at least not as much, but I don't even know if they ever declare someone as "no longer having sleep apnea", or if I'd actually pass that threshold, or if the DMV would care. My only saving grace is that I don't live in Maryland, but man, this makes me so scared about what might come next, and how long I'll get to keep my driver's license for before this either comes to my state, or some other health-related driving restrictions start cropping up.
This seems like such rampant safetyism to me that it honestly makes me so angry, probably angrier than I should be. I guess this seems like such government overreach, much in the same way as covid restrictions. Except that these restrictions really could last forever, and expand to other states, and never go away, unlike the covid restrictions. Did Maryland honestly have rampant cases of drivers falling asleep because they were so tired from their sleep apnea that they needed to mandate an intrusive, ongoing, never-ending medical treatment to save people from crashing their cars? Does this help anyone at all, or were they just looking to do some security theater?
I really want to do something to fight this before it expands. Is this the sort of thing the ACLU would take up the fight for? Are there any organizations that would actually fund and spearhead a class action lawsuit for this sort of thing?
So, since this set off my bullshit detector, I looked at the state's webpage which lists a number of conditions which must be reported, and says that subsequently, the state
>may send you several forms to complete. They also may send you a form for your physician to complete. After you return the forms, the DW&S Division then will make a decision about whether your situation should be referred for an opinion from the Medical Advisory Board (MAB). The MAB is a group of doctors who works with the MVA in analyzing customers’ driving abilities. If the MAB is involved, they (the MAB) may ask you for more information, or to attend a meeting.
So, clearly, neither #2 nor #3 above are "required."
Tell that to my friend, who's going through this right now, and for whom it's required for her mild sleep apnea. Sounds like it's required if the state deems it so for your case. She definitely didn't opt into 2 and 3 of her own accord, she's super pissed about it!
Edit: I did just check in again. Sounds like you are correct that a CPAP may not be required. But for my friend, it was required simply because it was her doctor's recommended treatment. But in my experience which also matches with what I read online, doctors recommend CPAPs for everyone who has sleep apnea. They made it my recommended treatment even though my sleep apnea was at the mildest possible level. And like I said, she didn't opt into having to send her CPAP data, the state took it upon themselves to force her to be treated in a way she does not want, for a condition that has no impact on her driving.
Yes, that was my point. "For your case," not in every case, as you seemed to claim. And, honestly, would you have written if she had had one of the other conditions listed on that web page, such as narcolepsy, or epilepsy, or a heart condition which can cause fainting? Isn't the issue the degree to which her particular condition increases the risks of causing an accident, which at this point we don't know?
I think it's less the risk itself, and more that we (pretend) we do not allow certain invasions of autonomy. If the narcolepsy or epilepsy rule required, as hypotheticals, that you get a 'smart' pillbox showing your compliance with a prescription program, than I'd be outraged by that as well even knowing that there's a pretty significant risk to both. But at least for epilepsy, the rule is to self-report seizures.
And this norm can go to fairly minimal levels of invasiveness: I have to report use of glasses as part of my Driver's License, and it's illegal for me to drive without them, but if I had to get my car outfitted with a camera and a power interrupt that would turn off the engine should I take my glasses that's absolutely be an illegitimate law. See the recent controversies over the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act anti-"impaired driving" tech.
Once someone's broken the law or otherwise had public problems, the state has more authority to move in: requiring a habitual drunk driver to use a breathalyzer interlock doesn't break this norm even if they weren't that drunk when driving. But this reporting requirement does not do that.
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I probably wouldn't have written it for narcolepsy, but that's my point, isn't it? There's no reason why sleep apnea should be considered grounds for license revocation, because it's super common, almost everyone has it sometimes, even if they're not diagnosed, and there's no reason to think that it poses a particular risk to driving. Where is the data that shows this policy is necessary, that untreated sleep apnea is a risk to driving and treated sleep apnea is not? Where are the droves of citizens dying because they were hit by drivers who have sleep apnea? If the state decided to take it upon themselves to declare this is necessary, what else will they declare it for?
And my point is that you don't know that. A quick search online turns up many studies that show a substantial increase in the risk of car accidents from those suffering from sleep apnea. Moreover, this study notes that "Characteristics that may predict crash in drivers with OSA include BMI, apnea plus hypopnea index, oxygen saturation, and possibly daytime sleepiness."
So, there does seem to be some evidence that people with sleep apnea are more dangerous drivers, especially if they have additional risk factors . And it sounds as if the state probably looks for additional factors before imposing conditions.
Whether that danger is high enough to merit driving restrictions of the kinds that the state has imposed on your friend is a different issue, of course.
This study shows that people who have never been married are at higher risk for car accidents: https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/1/33
This study shows that people who are more angry are at higher risk for accidents: https://www.apa.org/monitor/jun05/anger
I don't think most people would be in favor of the government telling you you have to be married to drive. I don't think most people would be okay with the government putting microphones in your home to hear if you shout too much, and revoking your license if you do.
I'm not disputing that. As I said, "Whether that danger is high enough to merit driving restrictions of the kinds that the state has imposed on your friend is a different issue, of course."
So I'm not really clear what you are saying then. From the top of the thread you started off by saying that you thought my initial post was BS and wasn't actually happening in real life and now you're no longer saying that... you're saying that you know that scientific studies can be abused in order to justify policies like this that most people will find to be unreasonable, unwanted, and without value... but you're okay with it happening anyway? I think I missed something, I'm confused. I'm not certain I see the common thread throughout what you were trying to say, except that you're playing devil's advocate for everything.
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