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Very well put. Once you realize that rationalist, atheist materialism is a belief system in its own right that is at the least on a level playing field with other religions, a lot of the social behavior you see makes far more sense. Ironically I see so much more of the bad behaviors usually ascribed to Christians (shaming, denying reality, trying to build consensus, rallying around unfalsifiable beliefs) coming from the materialists now that I have changed my viewpoint a bit.
And yes if you bring this up it gets handwaved away into "Well actually my position is correct so shut up." Basically the equivalent of a Christian saying "too bad, Jesus is the Son of God, that's it discussion closed." It's a bit infuriating, but I'm working on turning the other cheek.
And yes, exactly. Many people try to take a Nietzchean 'Vitalist' tack against Christianity, arguing that it's not good for the flourishing of strong life or whatever. Which my response at this point is just to facepalm and move on, because as you point out here Christianity has built and maintained societies which are so powerful as to make any other belief system look like infants compared to the adults of Western Christendom.
It really does baffle my mind how otherwise intelligent people can seriously look at Christianity and act as if it's a pacifying, weak social force. I suppose narrative really does trump facts much of the time.
Interesting. Personally I've found that I had to reach quite a low place before Christianity appealed to me personally - it felt like I had to be humbled before I could hear God trying to reach me. And I find that's one of the core strengths of Christianity compared to something like Buddhism.
Especially in the modern world, high on our intellectual hubris as we all are, I'd argue that Christianity's case becomes far stronger the more we fall in love with our own intellect and pride. Anyway, a similar theme I suppose.
I appreciate you being openly Christian on this forum. Not even evangelizing, just stating you're a Christian and holding your ground is difficult as you've pointed out. As a recent convert, I'm working on growing my faith but I hope to join you in the trenches down the road. We'll see.
I sympathize.
I can certainly see how that would be the case. I feel like ought to say something about path-dependence here. I wandered away from the church in my late teens/early twenties but found myself gravitating back as i got older and gained a new perspective on (and appreciation for) a lot of the old stories and lessons that my parents, grandparents, teachers, Et Al had been trying to impart.
As I've joked in the past, Moby Dick is wasted on high-schoolers because you kind of need to have gone through a bad break-up and had a brush with death to truly appreciate it's themes.
Similar deal here. I remember a turning point, a conscious decision to do the upright thing even though it wasn't the "smart" or "personally advantageous" thing to do (just the opposite in fact), and to let the cards fall where they may, and in that moment feeling both a presence and a sense of inner peace that i hadn't felt in years and hadn't realized that I had been missing.
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