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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   26358 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 4, 2023

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Since @greyenlightenment suggested a list of topics that weren't getting enough attention in the previous CWR thread, I decided to write a bit about Russia-Ukraine situation.

The summer campaign has ended, and Ukraine has found itself in an unenviable situation. The much-hyped counteroffensive has achieved only marginal gains, but the EU has exhausted its disposable stocks of arms and armor and the US, which has enough disposable firepower to zone rouge a medium-sized country, is a) not a charity and b) kinda getting busy with other stuff.

All this means Ukraine knows it won't be able to conduct further offensive operations and its most important medium-term goal is to not lose. There are multiple ways it can lose:

  • it loses foreign financial support that is keeping its economy afloat, either because
    • it runs out of collateral for the IMF and similar sharks' loans, or because
    • paying Russia off directly becomes a much cheaper option, or because
    • its politicians, who, like Squire Trelawney, don't know when to keep their mouth shut, pick a fight with each other or the EU
  • it runs out of SAMs during the winter and Russia achieves air superiority. I am quite sure there are people in Russia right now trying to come up with the cheapest possible missiles or drones that can't be shot down with tube AA
  • Putin re-elects himself in spring and starts a mass mobilization to extend the frontline. There's a reason why Ukraine started talking about reinforcing their northern border

Having so many ways to lose means the time is ripe for a ceasefire or even peace negotiations, but when your adversary smells blood they won't be satisfied with just what they have. So Ukraine either:

  • tries to agree to a ceasefire and frantically prepares for a resumption of hostilities (and even the biggest patriots of Ukraine won't trust their country not to screw the process up fatally)
  • agrees to significant concessions in exchange for peace (Finlandization at the very least, outright puppeting as the worst-case scenario)
  • or continues to resist, hoping for a black swan that hurts Russia and not them, or at least for a glorious last stand (sure Prague is a prettier city than Warsaw, but Poles know the glory is theirs)

but the EU has exhausted its disposable stocks of arms and armor and the US, which has enough disposable firepower to zone rouge a medium-sized country, is a) not a charity and b) kinda getting busy with other stuff.

One point that I think bears mentioning more often is that there is a back-channel game at play here: the US probably could fund or supply this war itself, but has been trying to pressure (Western) Europe into properly funding it's own defense.

There is that video of the Germans at the UN laughing at Trump suggesting their military expenditures were inadequate and that Russia was not to be trusted, but official statements about missing NATO GDP targets on defense spending have been going on for multiple administrations. Here is an easy chance for the EU to do so, and it's failing in a tragedy of the commons: Germany isn't likely to get invaded soon, so why should they pay for it instead of Poland?

Also worth mentioning is a political zeitgeist in which the EU has often historically protested American foreign policies (most notably the 2003 Iraq adventure, which I will concede probably deserved it, but also the presence of US troops in the EU, support of Israel, and a few other military activities like Libya), but also expected Team America, World Police to show up when war came to their doorstep. The US seems to be trying to balance its hardware support with a goal of getting the EU to pull it's share.

Also worth mentioning is a political zeitgeist in which the EU has often historically protested American foreign policies (...) but also expected Team America, World Police to show up when war came to their doorstep.

I'm going to push back on this a little. You are right that there is definitely an attitude among some Europeans that the yanks are a bit too keen on war (though plenty of Americans feel the same), but when the rubber hits the road the Europeans have broadly been willing to muck in. Yes Iraq was an exception - though the Brits were there with you - but as you mentioned the 'Iraq war bad' position has broadly been vindicated. Afghanistan, which was only marginally more justified, got buy in from the Europeans. The Libyan intervention was, if anything, French led. I'm not aware of any major dramas surrounding US troops in Europe, most nations are just happy to have them there. As for Israel, European leaders have generally been very supportive in their rhetoric - often to the detriment of their own internal unity with their Muslim populations. You might argue that only America really offers proper material support to Israel, but this is done for very American reasons (Jewish lobby).

You are right that there is definitely an attitude among some Europeans that the yanks are a bit too keen on war (though plenty of Americans feel the same), but when the rubber hits the road the Europeans have broadly been willing to muck in.

I suppose I hadn't considered the general possibility that the vocal "America bad" peaceniks in Europe might be different than the "increase support for Ukraine" crowd. There's a bit of a generalized fallacy in assuming all of the voices we hear from afar are unified, when it's quite possible that different subsets are making different points.

The Libyan intervention was, if anything, French led.

In 2011, yes, although they notably had to drag the Americans in, with rumors that European forces were running short of munitions, which seems quite relevant to the bigger picture. Libya has come up a few times before: in 1986 the US bombed Libya in retaliation for an attack on a Berlin discotheque, but was denied air transit over continental Europe (instead having to fly around Gibraltar), and afterward received some tacit condemnation from West Germany and France (notably France also struck Libyan targets in the '80s several times for its own reasons). I don't disagree with your characterization, either: the world is a surprisingly complicated place.

I suppose I hadn't considered the general possibility that the vocal "America bad" peaceniks in Europe might be different than the "increase support for Ukraine" crowd.

They absolutely, positively are two entirely separate crowds, in a way that I would have considered obvious and self-evident to anyone.

I would go further and say that the vocal "America bad" peaceniks and the Greenwald/Chomsky style pro-Russia tankies are the same people, just like they are in the US.

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