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I must admit I'm pretty ignorant about this phrase and why it's considered genocidal. Getting rid of Israel as a nation and even kicking out all of the Jews from there isn't genocidal, just ethnic cleansing, right? Is the issue that that was the Nazis' initial plan before they got to the Final one, and as such we can round one up to the other? That seems like the slippery slope fallacy (though I'll admit that there is indication that the people descending down the slope are doing so by pouring oil on it rather than by carefully inching down by building steps or something).
But I'd also say that, if it's the case that the phrase is genocidal in nature, then it doesn't really matter if the person saying the slogan is thinking to themselves, "I'm saying this because I really want those Jews murdered" or "I'm saying this because I want to show solidarity between XYZ and literally not an inch more;" the latter is still showing full-throated support for genocide, and their ignorance of what the phrase that they chant means just adds on to their ethical failure, and certainly doesn't mitigate it. I'm just not sure how the phrase could be genocidal in nature.
Well, I think the idea is if you are claiming Palestine will control the area currently controlled by Jews the result will likely be not the mass expulsion of Jews but the mass murder of Jews.
Hm, I always presumed that Palestine would control the area by expelling the Jews, but I can see that I was jumping to conclusions. Since Palestinian government has made multiple costly signals that mass murdering Jews is something they desire, so if Palestine "being free" refers to something like "current Palestinian government takes over all of that land (between river and sea), as if all of the IDF suddenly disappeared or lost their weapons," that's clearly calling for genocide, I would agree. Still, it seems to me there's enough ambiguity in "being free" to give room for doubt. Certainly some - likely many - people use the chant as a way to cheer for the murdering of Jews, and I also sympathize with how hypersensitive Jews would be to being murdered due to recent history, but it still seems unwarranted to call the chant genocidal, at least without independent individual evidence.
That ambiguity is why it’s necessary to inform kind-minded people that the Arabic translation is “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be Arab.” It rhymes because good propaganda has rhetorical power.
It’s like saying, “From the Rhine to the Oder, Germany will be Aryan” but replacing Aryan with “prosperous” in a language where either of the bordering rivers rhymes with that language’s word for “prosperous”.
Can you give a cite for this?
From Wikipedia, who I do not trust:
...So it sounds like different people use different versions, of which one actually is "shall be free".
I’ll cite that Wikipedia article. There are three basic recorded variations, one ends with “Palestine will be Islamic”, the other says “Palestine will be Arabic”. Only the third one talks about freedom.
Mine was never a strong point to begin with, but it is an important one to give context.
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That's certainly important context and pushes the needle in my mind towards it being more genocidal than I initially thought. That said, I think if they modified the phrase when chanting it in English, I think that also changes the meaning. Perhaps one could argue that they're showing solidarity with people who are calling for genocide, and it might be a tough needle to thread there between showing solidarity with pro-genocide people and actually calling for genocide oneself, but I don't think it's impossible.
The sheer rhetorical weight of the “you have been lied to/fooled by people seeking more power” meme should at least give them pause and make them reflect.
It’s famously the first bit of rhetoric in the Bible, when the serpent told Eve that God lied to the progenitor couple to keep them from becoming like Him. It’s a tool for defense lawyers, for the media, for sellers of products. It’s hard to exaggerate just how useful it is when exposing a real lie told to increase power.
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