This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm in my late 30s and married and have to say that one of the mildly surprising, but quite pleasing aspects of marriage is that this temptation isn't strong at all. While granting that people's sex drive differs, I have most settled on habitual womanizers just being scum, deeply immoral people with little regard for their commitments. To your point, it's actually somewhat interesting why I hold to more or less traditional Christian ethics despite not sharing the religion, but however it came to be, it isn't actually difficult to follow through on keeping complete commitment to my wife. Perhaps societal belief in the Christian God was necessary to so thoroughly inculcate that moral intuition, I don't know.
If I thought about it I could probably summon to mind some examples of people who risked their lives to save others but also cheated on their wives/husbands... Patton and Petraeus you might not count...
...
Well, this might be a bad example, but there's always MLK.
I searched for Righteous Among Nations who had extramarital affairs and got this:
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/felice-and-lilly-uneasy-berlin-love-story
The lesbian affair was after she separated from her husband, but it says she had affairs before that.
There's also Wilhelm Canaris, who is a candidate for Righteous Among Nations. Initially a supporter of the Nazis, he became head of the Abwehr, was horrified by the atrocities, tried to protest within the chain of command, then passed information to the British and also saved some Jewish lives. Eventually the Nazis found out and killed him. And he cheated on his wife with the woman he passed information to, a Polish spy. As far as moral courage goes, he could have just taken an early retirement or fled to Switzerland or something, but instead he risked and ultimately sacrificed his life for the greater good.
More options
Context Copy link
I felt the same way in my 30s and when my marriage was going well. It was blissful to not be tempted at all. Fast-forward ten years, with little incompatibilities growing exponentially, and things might look different. Although I have not done so, I have much more empathy now for some men who do cheat (not the compulsive, chronic cheaters, but the ones who feel abandoned in some aspects of marriage). There may come a time when it looks like the least bad of the terrible options.
I think this is why having a wife that's 7 to 10 years younger is generally a good idea
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link