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PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   26679 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 11, 2023

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Baphomet Has Fallen

How much good faith is required for an American state government respecting a religion's symbols?

The Satanic Temple, specifically the Satanic Temple of Iowa, put a statue depicting the pagan idol Baphomet in the Iowa Capitol, following the letter of the law allowing religious symbols. Thing is, it's explicitly an atheistic (or rather "non-theistic") religion; they have as much belief in the reality of Baphomet as they do the Flying Spaghetti Monster (mHNAty). They use literary symbols and provocative symbols to promote science and promote humanist atheist goals of tolerance and justice. It was designed to provoke a response, and it has; a Christian broke it. Deseret News reports that:

Jason Benell, the president of the Iowa Atheists and Freethinkers, described the “targeting” of the display as “encouraged by legislators.” He wrote in a news release, “This is unacceptable. When our leaders make it permissible to destroy religious — or non-religious — displays they find religiously objectionable, they are abdicating their responsibility to safeguard the freedom of expression of the citizens they represent.”

The state of Iowa finds itself in the position of avenging the rights of atheists to display a pagan idol they don't even believe in, which mocks people of genuine Christian faith with a dark symbol drawn from mythology.

Take that to its logical conclusion.

A Christian church could create a parallel object to be installed in the Iowa Capitol, a similar deliberately provocative anti-atheist symbol to be promoted as a sacred symbol of a pseudo-atheist "Church of the Human Condition" which exposes the failures and tragedies of the Enlightenment and promotes learning how to morally philosophize using the Jefferson Bible and select readings from Ayn Rand in after-school clubs. I can think of a few:

  • A statue of Charles Darwin and Karl Marx in their best suits, French kissing atop a pile of human skulls
  • A statue of Margaret Sanger and Madalyn Murray O'Hair standing back-to-back, dressed as Greek priestesses, each holding a knife in one hand and together holding the corpse of a Black baby
  • The Invisible Pink Unicorn (possibly made of pink-glazed blown glass, in the style of My Little Pony) as the steed bearing the returning Jesus, depicted as a Super-Saiyan, His head and hair burning white, His eyes like a flame of fire, His feet like fine brass
  • Or, if we want to avoid humanoid and animal statues entirely per the Third Commandment, an orrery (representing science) surrounded by gravestones bearing the names of Marx, Darwin, O'Hair, Sanger, Mark Twain, Oscar Wilde, Christopher Hitchens, and other prominent atheists.

Desecrating any of these would bear the same fourth-degree criminal mischief charges, with up to a year in prison and a $2,560 fine, and exposure to lawsuits by the artists and owners of the symbols.

But aside from the turnabout, I'd like to remind that atheism is treated as a religion de facto by its adherents and proselytes, and de jure by the government in having Freedom of Religion under the First Amendment. Anyone who says it is not a religion must, by implication, accept that the broken Baphomet statue is only a violation of Freedom of Expression (under the same Amendment) so any cries of Christian hypocrisy at its destruction are inaccurate on their face due to the uneven parallel. Only by accepting that atheism is a religion can atheists claim a sacred right to offend Christians.

You're missing the actual idol of atheism "Satanic Temple", which is floyd. Create a caricature of floyd sitting atop a pile of illegal drugs and guns, and they'd melt down instantly.

But they'd never let you do that in the first place, and if they did, the person who destroyed the statue would never be caught for some reason.

Edit: super saiyan jesus riding mlp would be badass and I want it to be real

Edit2: changed

You're missing the actual idol of atheism, which is fentalyl floyd. Create a caricature of floyd sitting atop a pile of illegal drugs and guns, and they'd melt down instantly.

This is a particularly pathetic example of weakmanning, and just a crappy post in general.

Improve your contributions, this place isn't just for unzipping and pissing fire.

I'm not weakmanning. I'm referring specifically to those people who created that other statue, which to be fair doesn't represent all "atheists" depending on your definition of atheist.

But in this context where the subject of the discussion is the "Satanic Temple" aka "atheists" it should be clear who I'm referring to. And the "Satanic Temple" explicitly endorses blm and other similar messaging.

I sincerely believe there is not a single card carrying member of the "Satanic Temple" who would publicly denounce floyd and if I'm wrong here, I would welcome any example and update my priors on this.

I'm not weakmanning. I'm referring specifically to those people who created that other statue, which to be fair doesn't represent all "atheists" depending on your definition of atheist.

"To be fair," describing an unspecified, fictional group of people engaging in behavior you have made up, and calling it "atheist" behavior, is the reason your comment is an unacceptable weakman.

But in this context where the subject of the discussion is the "Satanic Temple" aka "atheists"

Members of the Satanic Temple are atheists, but they are certainly not typical atheists and the vast majority of atheists are not Satanists, nor would be interested in being associated with a Satanic temple. So you cannot use the two terms interchangeably.

I sincerely believe there is not a single card carrying member of the "Satanic Temple" who would publicly denounce floyd

That wasn't your initial assertion, though. Even if your actual argument was something about members of the Satanic Temple also being BLM supporters, you didn't even attempt to link that back to the original topic, just went on a rant about how their "actual idol is fentanyl Floyd."

You aren't new, you know better. Stop posting like this.

I admit I made a mistake in the original post with the wording, since it was definitely yaken in a way that wasn't intended. But you're also weakmanning my post. There's no "unspecified group" at all here. I meant to refer to the "Satanic Temple" specifically mentioned in the top level post and made a mistake equivocating atheists with them.

Anyways this all directly addresses the top level post and discussion, where OP proposes creating a

deliberately provocative anti-atheist symbol

and other commenters replying with the difficulty of creating such a symbol. The symbol I proposed is of course, deliberately provocative and difficult to ignore. While it doesn't cleave exacly perfectly along atheist / christian lines is besides the point. It's a symbol that's aimed approximately at the people who created goat statue, who aren't exactly attacking theists either but have their own more complex goals.

You're missing the actual idol of atheism, which is fentalyl floyd.

This is complete nonsense. Even here on TheMotte there are probably dozens of atheists who are anti-BLM.

you're right

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