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Slaughtering, to me, seems like a highly incorrect use of the word. They are incidentally killing people in Gaza, some tiny percentage of which are civilians, most of whom are in the crossfire because they are being used as human shields by agents of Hamas, a foreign military operation that just conducted an act of aggression in Israel.
It seems rather likely to me that a large percentage are civilians, given how much Hamas tries to hide itself with civilians and inside civilian structures. Which doesn’t make the IDF’s collateral damage any less moral, in my opinion.
Oh I disagree. You can't have such a standard practice without willing participation of the vast majority of the population. Almost everyone over age 10 knows why they are there and is agreeing to it.
That may well be, but supporting the military doesn’t make you a combatant, or else the civilian/combatant distinction would be virtually meaningless in the vast majority of cases.
Yes I agree that the civilian/combatant distinction is useless in the vast majority of cases. I further assert most people asserted to be Palestinian Civilians would fail all but the most lenient tests if given a questionnaire with a perfect truth detector.
Now that’s interesting! Do you believe that there’s much of a point at all then, to making targeting civilians a war crime? Do you see the Oct 7 attack on Israeli civilians as a justified part of war-making?
Targeting how? Am I bombing a football stadium during gametime with a MOAB? Sure. Give that Colonel or Major the death penalty after the war.
But almost always when it is applicable, its a street level thing where you are operating with near zero info, often nowadays soldiers are intentionally dressing as civilians, and "civilians" are running interference for their local boys. In that case, blow the whole block and I don't see where the crime is. If I am "supporting" the military with a vote, I also am not a civilian, because the purpose of voting is to avoid internal civil wars. But that is not a good standard for the other side to try and figure out. So just lay off women and children that are in basements where there are no other men at all. If any men want to profess equal amounts of non-participation they should begin a military resistance movement against the government that they do not support.
Edit I forgot this part
Not really. They didn't make any real attempts to target IDF soft targets. They just targeted the equivalent of a football stadium, a concert. They also actively fled engagement with IDF instead, fleeing them, and targeting residences where they had zero reason to expect to particularly find IDF resources. Also, it was a surprise attack. I don't subscribe to the idea that you have to hamstring yourself in war, like a lot of progressives seem to think Great Britain/USA/Israel/France should do, but it does show a certain lack of courage. Combined with their cowardly appeals to the UN/western progressives for a ceasefire since 10/7 I think it betrays a guilty mind of a people who know they are not conducting themselves in a way compatible with being considered members of a human society.
Okay, so we’re mostly in agreement then.
Do you agree that there should be laws on the books (aka war crimes) that criminalize killing civilians in cases like this when there is clearly no reason to believe military assets will be affected, so that said colonel or major can actually be tried and given the death penalty after the war?
And if those women voted for the enemy military force? Or if those women work in factories producing munitions during the day, but are now cowering before you in a basement, is it therefore justified to shoot them as a non-civilian?
And if an unarmed man is hiding with the rest of his family in that basement, is it justified to take him specifically out and shoot him? Why only the man but not the women?
Yes, but I picked an outrageous example for a reason. My standard would that the targeting would have to be en masse or systemic. And it would have to be reserved for officers. So the people who planned 10/7, yes, the footsoldiers no. Those are just normal crimes that you could, if you captured them, try them in your own civilian courts, but I'm not dragging my own side's grunts into court for war crimes. It doesn't make logical sense to me. This isn't purely a "just following orders" argument, its also an argument to the inherent barbarity of war for the deployed footsoldier.
If you know these facts to be true, I would be accepting of moving the women into the combatant category. A lot of extra intelligence work IMO instead of just glassing the factory though...
Because I don't believe modern theories about men and women being the same. If he's combat aged, he's a presumed combatant. If he's not on his country's side regarding the invasion of his homeland his obligation is to vacate his country or defect to my military so we can install a regime he prefers.
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