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Culture War Roundup for the week of December 18, 2023

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Even from an atheist perspective, I feel like the Trinity is a weak example of that?

Maybe you don't really understand the doctine of the trinity? It's something that you can't logically explain or understand but you have to believe. I'm not even sure what it could mean to believe something you don't understand.

Any attempts at making it make logical sense have been declared heretical, for example:

  • Jesus was a human but operated like a remote controlled meat robot for God: adoptionism
  • Jesus didn't exist before he was born in human form: socinianism
  • Jesus never actually had a human body, he was something different throughout: docinianism
  • Jesus is actually a separate thing from God: arianism
  • Father, Son and Spirit are three different forms taken by God (kinda like water can be liquid, ice or vapor): modalism

I agree with you, it seems like even accepting the basic principles of Abrahamic religion regarding the power of God, Jesus’ existence as a human defies all explanation and any attempt to describe it in terms that make sense to humans are heretical. The point is that it doesn’t make sense, it’s not even like any of the above would make God less omniscient or omnipotent or the rest of it all, it’s almost like a game where you’re banned from rephrasing the question itself. It’s effectively prohibited to TRY to make sense of it.

I'd like to hope that I understand it, considering that I have multiple degrees in theology and have done research projects applying a Trinitarian lens to a range of issues...

There's a sense in which I would say that I don't understand the Trinity. Like Augustine and the seashell, nobody fully understands it. But I hope that I understand it approximately as well as a human being can.

The third one is docetism, incidentally.

And in your opinion something nobody fully understands is less of a shit test than believing in perpetual virginity?

Sure. The idea that nobody would fully understand the nature of God is not a particularly shocking one - certainly both Jews and Muslims will happily accept that much. You might as well point out that no physicist fully understands their own field of study. We gain more knowledge, we learn, but we never reach total comprehension. That's quite all right?

Incidentally, I mentioned the virgin birth. The perpetual virginity is a different doctrine. As FarNearEverywhere notes, even the Reformers, who were as strongly committed to the virgin birth as anyone, had doubts about the perpetual virginity of Mary, particularly in light of Jesus apparently having siblings.

And in your opinion something nobody fully understands is less of a shit test than believing in perpetual virginity?

Yeah, because even the Reformers had a falling out about the perpetual virginity of Mary; Luther had no problem with it, but he was still in mindset a Catholic. As denominations got more Protestant over time, and with the fears of Mariolatry, they denied her virginity.

Of course, then down the line, this leads to denying the Virgin Birth altogether, because hey how can a modern person of the scientific era believe in pregnancy without sex, and then it's not a big step to "Jesus was Just This Guy, You Know?", but that's their problem, not ours or the Orthodox

See the Athakist to the Theotokos:

Priest: Eloquent rhetors we see mute as fish before you O Theotokos. For they are at a loss to explain how you had the power to give birth and yet remained a virgin. But we the faithful marveling at the mystery cry out with faith:

Rejoice, vessel of God's wisdom;
Rejoice, storehouse of God's providence.
Rejoice, revealer of philosophers as fools;
Rejoice, exposer of the technologists as irrational.
Rejoice, for the fierce debaters are made foolish;
Rejoice, for the creators of the myths have wilted.
Rejoice, breaker of the webs of the Athenians' logic;
Rejoice, filler of the nets of the fishermen.
Rejoice, drawer of many from the abyss of ignorance;
Rejoice, enlightener of many with knowledge.
Rejoice, ship for those wishing salvation;
Rejoice, harbor for life's navigators.
Rejoice, O Bride unwedded.