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Culture War Roundup for the week of January 8, 2024

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First amendment jurisprudence makes it really really hard to prove incitement, and conspiracy charges require agreement - and it's notable that he gets shouted down with accusations of being a fed when he starts yelling about going into the capitol.

What are you talking about? DOJ Attorney Matthew Graves has even announced this week that they are looking into prosecuting J6 Protesters who did not enter the Capitol building but might have entered other restricted areas -- the entire J6 campaign by the DOJ is inventing new applications of existing laws. If they can't find anything to prosecute Ray Epps for, it's because they don't want to. Why else would motivate the judge not to reprimand Epps at all, but to instead say he was a good boy who got caught up in unfortunate conspiracy theories?

It can't simultaneously be true that it was a "fedsurrection" and that it was just a "peaceful and patriotic protest" whose participants are being unjustly prosecuted.

I don't understand why these are two irreconcilable positions: "The feds entrapped MAGA in a sting." Not only does that reconcile your two positions, but it is in fact the argument being made by just about every J6 truther.

What do you expect those lesser offenders to be charged with? I expect they will cop charges very similar to the ones Epps got - "disorderly conduct" and suchlike.

The positions are irreconcilable because they disagree on the fundamental question of whether or not J6 was actually a bad thing. There's an incoherence to saying "the Jan 6rs did nothing wrong, and also, the feds made them do it". If they did nothing wrong, how were they "instigated" into doing it? Conversely, if the feds instigated an insurrection, that means that Jan 6 was an insurrection.

If MAGA was entrapped in a sting, it was a "sting" where they were "entrapped" into conducting what the majority of Republicans now consider a legitimate protest.

The normie Republican position is that J6 was justified because it was not an insurrection. The government's position is that J6 was an attempt to overthrow the government. The "sting" theory is that the Feds took justified protest and tried to make it look like an attempt to overthrow the government, so they could persecute it.

What do you expect those lesser offenders to be charged with?

Who decided that Ray Epps was a "lesser offender"? The feds are charging lots of people with more for less. Ray Epps was egging people on into entering the Capitol, and the media and government are all talking about how this poor guy has been targeted by a smear!

How did the feds make J6 look like an attempt to overthrow the government without getting anyone to do anything wrong?

Who decided that Ray Epps was a "lesser offender"?

The Supreme Court of the United States, in 1969, when it decided in Brandenburg v Ohio that the First Amendment protected speech so strongly that it became nearly impossible to convict a person of inciting a riot. Alternatively, the framers of the First Amendment itself.

I agree that the feds are charging people with more for less, but the rules they have to play by say they probably can't convict Epps for inciting a riot. Personally I think the First Amendment should be abolished which would make it much more possible to prosecute the kind of egregious behaviour Epps engaged in. But a lot of Americans disagree with me and it's their country.

  • -17

I'm going to repost the original Revolver News article here, since I posted it in another comment. Ray Epps did a lot more than exercise his First Amendment rights:

https://revolver.news/2021/10/meet-ray-epps-the-fed-protected-provocateur-who-appears-to-have-led-the-very-first-1-6-attack-on-the-u-s-capitol/

Epps orchestrated the breach of the capitol, announced before J6 his intention to breach the Capitol, incited protesters during J6 to join him in breaching the Capitol, and then was put on the FBI's "Capitol Violence Most Wanted List," from which he was quietly dropped as soon as investigative reporters started asking questions. And there's more.

but the rules they have to play by say they probably can't convict Epps for inciting a riot

They are not playing by any rules, a claim I have repeated several times now to which you seem not to have said anything.

Personally I think the First Amendment should be abolished

You're posting on a website that was created to escape censorship. Are you trying to look silly?

This is your reminder that AshLael is literally a paid political operative in meatspace. Any conversations you have with them should be viewed through that light.

In Australia.... He has his biases, which color his responses to this issue, but we all do.

Sure, we all have biases. But I don't literally get paid to further a specific political agenda, and I have a hard time imagining a world where that doesn't drastically affect your biased far beyond normal.

But I don't literally get paid to further a specific political agenda

But that's my point: he's being paid to further a specific political agenda in Australia. Feel free to hold his job against him on literally any other issue, from COVID to gun rights, but J6 is too specific to the US. I could grant something like "if he publicly took the wrong side of this issue, he'd lose his job" like Jiro argued, I could even grant that even though we're anon-posting over here the unconscious fear of ruining his career might bias the opinions he's posting here, but he's not literally getting paid to persuade people J6ers are insurrectionists.