site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 22, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

As a Texan who has been a lifelong democrat voter, arresting and charging Abbot with treason over this would force me to swallow my dislike and vote straight ticket republican for a decade until he gets pardoned. I tend to thing I'm not alone in this, and that Biden's pollsters know it. Is Abbot in the wrong? Yeah, probably. But arresting a sitting governor who is toeing the line of the letter of the law is not the appropriate escalation for this. Charging him with treason is beyond the pale. It's a huge escalation and a violation of the principles that allow us to maintain a civil society. We didn't execute governors when they were fighting for segregation, and I really doubt we're about to start now. I'm already iffy on what's going on with Trump, and he did blatantly attempt to abuse his authority to convince his subordinates to subvert state certifications.

The appropriate escalation here is judicial and administrative remedies, what Biden is currently pursuing. It might be slow and cumbersome, but it avoids tearing our society apart, which is the whole reason we have a federal government in the first place.

As a Texan who has been a lifelong democrat voter, arresting and charging Abbot with treason over this would force me to swallow my dislike and vote straight ticket republican for a decade until he gets pardoned.

So? Even if your state retains electoral votes rather than being involved in a mini-Reconstruction, Texas was Red anyway.

But arresting a sitting governor who is toeing the line of the letter of the law is not the appropriate escalation for this. Charging him with treason is beyond the pale.

The Democrats have already demonstrated they're willing to go beyond the pale.

I'm already iffy on what's going on with Trump, and he did blatantly attempt to abuse his authority to convince his subordinates to subvert state certifications.

Which is a lot LESS than ordering troops to defy Federal authority, which is just about where we are.

We didn't execute governors when they were fighting for segregation

"We" (Kennedy) Federalized the Alabama national guard and sent in the 101st Airborne, and George Wallace backed down. If he hadn't, he might well have been executed.

Democratic federal authority hangs by a thread atm and they don't currently have anywhere near the mandate Kennedy did when putting down segregationists. If Biden arrests Abbot, my current read of the situation is he would basically be certain to lose the presidency as a result. You might disagree on how the votes shake out, but it's pretty clear Abbot thinks the same. It's precisely because Biden is extremely unpopular and this is an election year that he's being so bold.

Which is a lot LESS than ordering troops to defy Federal authority, which is just about where we are.

Abbot is very carefully not doing that. The recent court ruling does not forbid Abbot from continuing to place razor wire blockades.

Personally, I think that the way this ends is with Biden doing nothing substantial until he gets an actual court victory or wins the election, and Abbot then backing down.